Sounds to me like a different ATCO about 5 minutes after AWE1549 disappears from his radar. As a UK ATCO, I empathised with him when he had no idea if the aircraft had crashed, or ditched "safely".

I'm sure NY Tracon's CISM (Critical Incident Stress Management) scheme kicked in to relieve him asap in order to give him support.

As has been said, very professional on both sides, and let's not pick holes in the RT!

Calling all Armchair Experts/Investigators!! Why not send Capt Sully a copy of the CAP 413: Radiotelephony Manual. Maybe he might learn something about proper RT procedures/flying/airmanship...:ugh:

Seriously though, in an Emergency situation like this, crossing the t's and dotting the i's, isn't important. We leave that for the annual line check and 6 monthly sim. This was REAL WORLD folks........

Totally agreed ..... great job by New York ATC .... makes you proud!

Yeah, great job by NY ATC, La Guardia and Teterboro, some fast decision making!!!

Ahh makes sense now. The version I was listening to does not go continue on that long.

Well he may of advancing years but let us not forgot that Capt. Eric Moody was himself hailed as a hero in 1982 when the BA 747 he was skippering lost all 4 engines over the Indian Ocean and drifted down over 20,000ft before they got them going again.

Perhaps those who may be too young to remember should have a read:

The story of BA flight 009 and the words every passenger dreads ... | Mail Online

or have a look and listen:



Give the bloke a little respect, he deserves I reckon.:D

It all goes back to Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.


Had he have given the full Cap 413 Mayday call, although it would have sounded very professional, a big black smoking hole on Broadway wouldn't have looked too clever.

Mr Moody, the retired BA expert had a dig at the American RT, was shocked that the Cactus crew never declared a mayday and that the controller never gave them a discreet frequency to talk on.

Some people are never satisfied. :E

Hopefully NOT!

The CVR was NOT installed for the press or the public. it was installed ONLY for mishap investigations! :mad: :ugh:

Within 10 seconds of informing TRACON that he'd lost engines, TRACON informed LGA tower and had them stop all takeoffs so 1549 could return if able.

He may not have used the word mayday, but it seems clear that TRACON immediately treated it as an emergency.

As I often say there is a difference between doing "things right" and the "right thing" - this crew obviously did the latter.

A discreet frequency was surely the last thing they needed - it's bad enough trying to set a new (unexpected) frequency on a "normal" departure!

They didn't have to say MAYDAY, EMERGENCY or PAN PAN. The controller knew immediately from the radio transmissions and what the crew said, and their responses to his inquiries, and by watching the a/c descending, that this was an absolute emergency.

He responded immediately by notifying LGA tower to stop all departures, thereby reducing his workoad and clearing the runways of aluminum.

After flying into NY for years you recognize the voice immediately.

GROUND ATC Well done as well
 

Have listened acouple of times to the recording and how well the pilot
handled things but i want to add my thoughts and praise for the ATC
Controller he did not seem flustered in the Face of what was a potential
Disaster .Well done that Man you to deserve more recognition for a
job well done.

Tony
Farnborough

Fireflybob:

I totally agree with all that you say!!!!

Well said !!!

Paolo

Exactly. What some here fail to realize is that R/T is NOT an end unto itself, it's communication. US ATC doesn't need a verbatim "mayday" call to begin emergency response as the situation dictates, as this audio clearly shows. Capt Sully's stating he had lost thrust in both engines and was returning...explaining the situation.. is tantamount to an emergency declaration and there is certainly no hesitation on the part of the controller due to him failing to understand this. In other words, the fact that an emergency existed was communicated within seconds, and appropriate responses began by the Controller which would have told Cpt Sully that his emergency status was obviously understood by ATC.

Mr Moody perhaps needs an electro-shock to the head because he sounds like he's too old to acertain the obvious from the audio; that the controller instantly knew an emergency existed and why (birdstrike/lost thrust) and could probably use some instruction from Capt. Sully regarding the foolishness of burdening the pilots with unnecessary distractions during a full-blown emergency while they're trying to fly the airplane.

Well, NObody except ab initio BA air cadets care what Mr. Moody is "shocked by" or what he thinks about American R/T anyway.

Not declaring a mayday made no difference to the outcome, so all ponderings are irrelevant to this accident.

But, out of curiosity, why not declare one, would you, what is the disadvantage, is it a cultural thing or would it just not occur to you during an emergency? I probably would say the word, although I can't guarantee it, but that's the way I was brought up.

As I say just curious.

mayday ?
 

If things were happening that Fast would you have Time to even think
about putting out A mayday ? .
Correct proceedures yes everytime but there has to be the time you
just are so busy Saving your passengers and crew you dont do it
Was anyone concerned about lack of MAYDAY Call ?

Tony
farnborough

After listening to the ATC, the message got across without the need for a 'Mayday' call. Time permitting I'm sure one would have been put out but when you consider the altitude at which the event occured and the time constraints whilst probably attempting to relight an engine, complete drills etc, then I think it is realistic that a 'mayday' call was not sent.
Just my opinion;)

Rgds

CL747

Agree with the consensus that a Mayday call was not required.....too little time, and unnecessary, in that of course it was a mayday ; A320 with no power and not much altitude? The pilot had said what the problem was most concisely.

Isolating the incident, by imposing RT silence or transferring non emergency traffic to another frequency is an ideal....but it may take time to set up....finding a body to do the work or a spare workstation are just two possible problems. Possibly a technique to employ with longer playing incidents.

can't wait until the Air Crash Investigation episode :8

Oh no....here we go again...the CAP 413.....when are the british ever going to get over the fact they did not invent aviation:ugh:

The CAP 413 is a british document, with all the silly british exceptions to the ICAO Std.
When are you ever going to grow up and say CLEARED ILS iso. that nonsense I have to go through every day...... :}

Cheers