BA 15% pay cut
 

BA CHIEFS CUT THEIR PAY BY 15%
British Airways executives have agreed to cut their pay by 15%. They say it is a move to help the airline through difficult times in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks in the United States. Chief executive Rod Eddington, who suggested the move, will have his £525,000 basic salary cut by £78,000. All 12 executive directors have agreed to a 15% pay cut, while 600 senior managers are being asked to have their salaries reduced by 10%. BA, which earlier today announced cuts in flights and a 9% reduction in capacity, says it hoped to save £2 million in the current financial year through the salary savings. Mr Eddington said: "Taking a pay cut is the right thing for the most senior people in the business to do at this time. It is part of their contribution as leaders to helping BA through this most difficult of times." In a letter to managers, Mr Eddington said he was conscious how hard they were working to respond to the "extraordinary challenges" the airline industry was facing. "Asking you to accept a pay cut is not something I do lightly. However, I believe that it is the appropriate step for us to take at this time as a collective act of leadership." Starting salaries for senior managers is around £50,000. BA said there were no plans to ask other staff, such as pilots or cabin crew, to take a pay cut.

Did'nt I read that the boss of AA was going to work until X'mas for FREE. Would'nt expect Rod to do that but how will he manage on a meagre £400,000 odd + benefits...(pause while I dry my eyes).
BTW, where else could he go now?

Pity poor Rod, he´s going to be looking for a job before very long.

Remember Ayling? All he ever really did wrong was sanction the tail-graffiti debacle but he was made the scapegoat for everything from the contraction of margins on the Atlantic market to the growth of low-cost competition and demonised for it all. BA´s troubles now make Ayling´s reign look pretty good in comparison....

So I expect that having shown 'leadership' in taking a 15% pay cut they'll expect you troops to follow suit.

BA pilots, voluntary pay cut 15%?

600 hundred senior managers !!!!!!.

That seems a very large number, what do they classify as "senior"? Maybe they've accidently stumbled on one of their problems!

Spot on wooof what kind of an airline needs 600 Senior Managers? Answer a bureaucratic hierachical monster that no CEO has ever sorted out since it was a state run monolith.

What BA needs to do is dump 400 of its 600 "Senior Managers" and then start on the middle and junior managers.

When the ratio of staff/Managers/Passengers approaches that of its competitors then it might be in a position to survive.....even thrive!(Ryanair 1 member of staff per 6,ooo passengers flown last year, BA 650 pax per member of staff)
Regards Bigpants

Guys,

I'm happy to accept that there is bureaocracy in BA but I think you may be pointing the gun at yourselves before very long when comparing the 6000pax/1 staff at Ryan with the 600pax/1 staff argument at BA.

If you sacked every Manager/back room boy you'd still get nowehere near the 6000/1 ratio you quote so I think it's fair to say that those at the sharp end are likely to face similar pressures on their terms and conditions and productivity levels. I doubt that many Ryan Air pilots get paid the £140 000 pa so many of you enjoy.

Incidentally in reply to an earlier post Senior Management salaries at BA are considerably below those of the pilots and it takes until at least 35 and usually at least 40 to get there. Salaries start around 40k rising to around £80k.
I find it amusing that some of you quote a mobile phone and laptop as a perk - get real!! the mobile phone is a pain in the ass (so you can be on call anytime) and the laptop - jeez probably some 3 year old heap of junk which can just about run Office 95! That would be like me saying to you that getting SID charts is handy!

Managers get the same travel concessions Captains do (only they don't get to put their family in 'First' all the time when operating ;o)

They do also get healthcare so that when the stress of working a 60hr week 47 weeks a year finally catches up with them they get the best medical treatment possible!

I think there are many who feel the pilots have had it pretty good in BA for a long time - I recall an 8 day trip to Barbados with only a quick hop to St Lucia in the middle of the week - that's not exactly maximising productivity either is it??

Just trying to put some balance in here. It's a dreadful time for all of us in any airline - let's just hope that things start to improve soon for all our sakes...

Not exactly crying in my beer about Rod's pay cut though - the senior execs of these plc's are a bunch of nest featherers!

Desk-pilot

Desk-pilot

What about asking Ayling for some money back?

I wonder how many of BA's Captains - almost all of whom earn more than management, as Desk-pilot describes above - will voluntarily offer to sacrifice 20% or so of their salaries?

Airline pay scales are grossly distorted. A captain's duties are commensurate with those of a senior manager; and those of an FO the same as a junior one - and those are the pay scales that should be employed. Indeed, a CSD/Purser should be earning slightly more than an FO due to their greater levels of responsibility.

One of the more positive opportunities that this current economic situation presents is the ability for airlines to address these issues and hopefully drastically restucture airline cost bases in order to ensure that the industry is much leaner, meaner, fitter and stronger.

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: The Guvnor ]

Desk-pilot,

I've worked for BA for three and a half years and I've yet to meet a Captain on £140k. Remember please that BA have fewer pilots per aircraft than any other major international carrier AND we get paid less for doing more work.

Good point Bigpants. If BA dump 400 Senior Managers it's still one per aircraft.

Desk-Pilot, I hope you're not posting from Waterworld when there's so much to be done.
Oops, sorry, a bit early for that, though many pilots will have been at work for hours by then.
Have you noticed that most Captains are also at least 35-40, and they did'nt get to start on £40k, and most don't earn over 80k.

Guv, although a captain may have the same day to day type of responsibilities as a senior manager, when the **** hits the fan at FL330 I would say that there is no way you could possibly compare the two !!!! You obviously spend far to long tapping away on PPrune. There is a world outside the computer you know....
As for the CSD getting paid more than the FO, that is just plain stupid. The FO has far more responsibility than anyone back in the cabin. For one, they are trained PROFESSIONALS (unlike cabin crew - it doesn't take a great deal of nouce to open a door and direct people down a slide) and for another they are 2IC in every ops manual I've ever worked to. (after the skipper).
Then again, anyone who whinges about pilots salaries is usually just jealous - because it's something they can't do themselves.

Desk Pilot- I really wish it was £140k pa.
Obviously there's something in the air at Waterworld that distorts the mind ....
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Ahh, come on Guv!
Look at the training involved to get to there.
But Ok then, just make sure that, as soon as the Captain leaves the ship, and puts the FO in charge, that the meter starts counting Captain pay for the FO. ;)

Guv

You should stop drinking that grog that obviously makes talk silly.
Where do you buy the stuff ??
Where do you find the time ? I keep bumping into your patronizing prose in basically every thread I dare to open. It's turning very very creepy you know ?

Guv,

I actually think that you are a wind up merchant. No one in their right mind would think like you in this whole damned universe.
You're always on your own and you will always remain so.
I have never read a posting from you that made sense and you are terribly anti-pilot.
Why oh why do you choose to spend your entire life on this forum, just to kick out at flight crew is beyond comprehension.
You really are one sad idiotic case.

One point missed by the Guvnor in the Purser-F/O debate is that money, like it or not, is representative of power. There are airlines, (of the two-tiered variety) that do have pursers being paid more than F/Os. In a necessarily hierarchical environment, this has led to misconceptions of power, with questionable results.

Guv,
Your comment that CSD's/Pursers pay should be more than a FO's is one of the most ridiculous comments I have seen for a while.
The Purser may well be at the coal face when it comes to dealing with the pax and presenting the company image etc. (A job I would not like to do for all the tea in China). But even on a normal sector a civil aircraft needs 2 pilots, they may not be that busy all the time but throw in a snag and some crap weather and then ask the 150 punters down the back who has the most responsible job!

guvnor,
you sir,are an idiot.
jumbo

One point missed by the Guvnor is that money very often seems to be seen as the equivalent of power. In airlines (mostly of the two-tiered variety)where senior pursers do earn more than junior F/Os, this has led to misconceptions of power - with questionable results.
Of course this must not be the ultimate argument for the payscales being 'upside up' but at least it will have to be treated as a reality.

Guv,

I was starting to believe that one or 2 things you mentioned had credibility and was reasoned arguement. However, your comment regarding pay/responsibility between FOs/CSDs has destroyed this conception completely. It is obvious now that you have absolutely no idea.

B clam

In BA the CSD/Purser does indeed get paid more than the First Officer! (In many cases)

That should Guv. What a Tosser!

Guys'

Come on now, while I hate pull pprune seniority out of the hat it should be blatently obvious to all but the most recent ppruners by now that guv is a wind up merchant and as such sould be completely ignored.
To bite at many ridiculous statements that he spouts only enables him to post further idiotic statements there by getting him closer to his by now obvious target of 3000 posts.
Of course the powers that be could always reset his post counter to zero on completion of his 2999th post. :D
However the danger then becomes that he would attempt to achieve said 3000 posts again :eek:

CSDs/Pursers have a great deal of experience under their belts and are fully responsible for the lives of all of their passengers - all the more so with the new security regs requiring flight deck to remain behind a locked door at all times. In the event of an emergency landing followed by a fire, the flight deck bods are first out through their own exits, leaving the crew to deal with the pax. Fair enough, but then the person/persons in charge of the cabin crew members should be suitably remunerated for it!

And of course their responsibility doesn't stop just with the passengers - they are also responsible for any monies collected through the sale of on board goods; catering, etc etc.

At the end of the day, the Captain is ultimately responsible for the aircraft and all on board, so no argument he has the most responsibility and should therefore be paid the most. But should he be paid any more than someone making decisions that affect the company's financial/commercial future? I can't see that. There are plenty of jobs that carry at least as much risk and involve as much training - for far less pay.

Let me put it this way - can anyone come up with an overwhelming argument against these comments - preferrably with facts to back up their position?

Guvnor, please do us all a great service - Curl up and die.

guvnor - last week you recommended not to buy BA shares when they were around £1.15, within a few hours they had risen to £1.50 (today, 179p). I read you say CSD/Purser responsibilty comparable to FO - what on earth are you talking about?

I've read your posts over a period of time, and quite rightly are entitled to your own opinion. However, what really grates is that you speak in a tone that implies everything you say is a fact; and mainly, what I have noticed is that in fact you speak complete drivel. Your constant attack on pilots (and at the present time, quite distateful) underscores your joalousy and undermines your objectivity. Finally, the fact that you obviously spend your whole life on this forum, indicates that you are a seriously deranged freak. Suggestion - harness your bitterness and envy into a more worthy cause - I bid you farewell.

Desk Pilot - can I get the managers to work at the times I keep puttiing my body through and see if they need the extra days off? Longhaul flying is detrimental to my bodies health, I had some time off last year for an operation and the difference in well-being at the end of that was immense (no more feeling as if i'm on another planet, no more constant colds}. We fly to the hotspots of the world and we are the final barrier to any disaster (reponsibility and accountability) in an environment that does not always allow a meeting to resolve. All things considered I think that our pay is not very good (140k is the few, not the norm). I know many, many people earning more than myself. Finally, safety is a priority for everyone, and particurlary now, many of the public are petrified of flying - I think that they would like to know they have a couple of well paid professionals trying their best to get from A to B, not some monkey on wages they could get driving a cab instead.

Again guvnor - i've never in my life met a person with intelligence who can't see the vast differnce between our job and the cabin crew - what does that say about your intelligence?

Guv

Will caledonian wings staff take a pay cut

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/aircraft/pigflys.gif

Try not to be bitter.

There's a good chap.

Desk Pilot

Just to clear up a small point that you mentioned concerning the 8 day Barbados trip. You should go to debating lessons because this ridiculous angle of attack you have chosen is an own goal, mate: Pilots do not make schedules; they fly them as organised by those who are hired to sit at a desk and dream of being anywhere but where they currently are. Neither can you use the FTL argument because the 777 does it in four days.

You obviously think that pilots have had it too easy for too long (indeed haven't you said as much?). Well, you're entitiled to your opinion, I s'pose, flawed as it is!

Secret Squirrel,

I think you mistake my sentiments. I do not feel that pilots have had it too good for too long - I realise it is a highly skilled and demanding job which puts considerable strain on both the body and family life and which thus commands a premium salary.

My argument is against those who feel that a professional Manager should have all their perks removed and their salary degraded because they're all a waste of space. I also made the point that of course there is waste and 'fat' in the back office but there also is at the sharp end. Surely you must all realise that this marks the start of an erosion of everyone's terms and conditions and is truly the thin end of the wedge.

If we're not very careful a few lunatics under Bin Laden are going to cause us all a great deal of heartache. I for one am extremely angry about what they have done and the way it has snowballed.

Perhaps we should target our anger at them, not other sections within the airline.

Now where did I put that Harrier!

Desk-pilot

Nice to see The Guvnor reducing this to a Cabin Crew should get paid more than Flight Crew argument again.

You're not a CSD are you Guv? :rolleyes:

No, he's a w@nker!

Funny airforcenone, I was just wondering if the guvnor was a CSD. Would amply explain his FO/CSD pay/responsibility drivel, which I don't think really merits any further comment.

If he is a pilot, and he takes that view of his First Officers, one can only imagine his CRM is lacking to a dangerous extent. That sort of attitude would quickly lead to a P45 in my company.

Sad. Very sad.

Guv,

You have not replied to my earlier post. Namely; why do you choose to spend your life amongst the people you so dislike and disrespect namely - PILOTS on this forum.

You are the most despicable idiot - because that's what you MUST be - I have come across here EVER!!!!

Why don't you just form a scab and drop off?

Or.... do you enjoy being a masochist????

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: Mike-Hunt ]

By God iv'e enjoyed reading all these comments from you guys, really entertaining but at the end of the day it's the poor old engineer who deserves more cash as they are the ones that keep you and that lump of metal up there safe, so stop fighting amongst yourselves and grow up :rolleyes:
PLEASE!!
_____________________________________________
Have to raise that one to add.

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: RAMPONE ]

Desk Pilot ,
Is it true that you and your fellow residents at Waterside have been told not to look out of the window in the morning ?

I've heard that it is so that you have something to do in the afternoon!!

Hi all.

I am relatively new to this site and was directed here due to its informative nature.

As a newcomer to the site i would like to take this opportunity to firstly say "hello", and secondly to question why some people are here in the first place.

Probably a quarter of postings are from people who clearly just want to create tension.

Some people seem to go to a lot of time and trouble to gain usefull "rumours" for the site, to only have abuse posted against them.

Is this adult ??

These people seem to me like the hooligans that pretend to call themselves football fans so that they can create confrontation.

Maybe this is historically what the site is like.

If so then i appologise to you all.

This is a great site which i hope i want to remain a part of. :)

The real problem is that for too long, BA have had too many people, being paid above market rates, doing too little. In times like these its the innefficient operators like BA who wil hurt the most.

Quite simple really.

Flying Banana
On the subject of expensive engineering company cars, i think you'll find that most companies hire cars these days, they don't buy them outright for 20k...The difference in rental between a turbo nutter golf and a
1.6 Astra is not a lot and certainly would not add up to 4.8 million..

Perhaps the easiest method for BA to save some dosh from crew rather than crew numbers would be to reduce the allowances / rates for Overtime, failing that you could do what the BA Managers do, without complaint - put all those extra hours in for nothing!.

Well, lots of hot air and posturing but no one has come up with any argument as to why captains should not have pay parity with senior managers; FOs with junior managers; and PSRs/CSDs the same as (or slightly more than) FOs.

I do apologise for leaving engineers out of this scenario - I'd place holders of licences with type ratings and A&C plus Multi X or whatever the JAA equivalent is at a middle- management level - between Captains and FOs. Holders of LWTRs around FO level or slightly less. Engineers as I've said many times before are a vital part of the airline business and people who have very sadly been overlooked for too long. A good engineer is worth his/her weight in gold and at the end of the day is what makes flying safe!

I also think that pay rates for cabin crew generally should be substantially increased. I was recently going through some comparisons with pay rates for CC at different airlines and frankly (a) I can't see why they would do it for what they are getting vs the hassle they get from flight deck and the pax at times; and (b) no wonder there's such a high turnover. Perhaps if CC was made more of a 'profession' and considerably better paid then they would be prepared to look upon it as a longer term career than currently seems to be the case for many. As for their pay, let's put it this way - one could chose between a dozen CC or one BA long haul captain!

Incidentally, if anyone can come up with any other industry where the line personnel get paid more (basic pay) than management I'd be interested to hear it!

Thanks Guv......will you marry me, I WILL have your children. :D

Anyway BA is top heavy with managers and do-nothing backroom types.

We are a group of about 120 engineers with about 40, yes, 40 support staff...

Most times when I pass thru LHR they can frequently be spotted playing Solitare or minesweeper. :rolleyes:

All very valuable I'm sure!

Love

LP

As a BA Psr on worldwide at LGW I'd love to earn the same as an F/O, but I know for a fact that my take home doesn't touch that of an F/O. I admit that we are well paid compared to other UK carriers, but compare us to AF, KL & LH etc etc it's pretty much the same (in fact ex-colleagues who I left at AF work less than I do & earn the same...). As for productivity, the planners in their suits at Waterside aren't known for being the most crew friendly of bods, so an 8 day BGI was obviously the most productive way to crew the flights at the time. As cabin crew we are the only european major to do back to back trips, which boosts productivity no end....and they are killers, just ask any 767 Flight Crew who do the double LGW-JFK-MAN-JFK-LGW trips....
There are a few mega senior C/C who on occasion may top the pay of a junior F/O, but only when the C/C member has done a couple of long range trips & the F/o has been stuck on a month of E coast n/stops or Africas....

[ 28 September 2001: Message edited by: SussexPSR ]