The Guvnor in the news again!
 

Not sure how long this will last before it gets consigned to Jet Blast or somesuch place but The Guv features in The Sunday Mail again.

Looks like they contacted all the parties mentioned on a certain website.

Wonder if this guy will ever go away:rolleyes: :confused:

With all that wonderful news I suspect it will stay here quite a while! :D

What a con artist. :mad:

People like him really give the industry a bad name. Hopefully all his "friends" over in Airliners.net will get a glimspe of this as well.

When will 411A be in the Sunday Mail? It's almost as much fun reading his posts as 'Guv's' ;)

Incoming.

Does anyone know who he flew for as a self-proclaimed DC-8 pilot years ago?

Can he be charged with fraud for naming a bank as a sponsor, on a website? What remote island does he plan to fly to with the investors' money?

Does his Mom remind him to clean his room, and then give him keys to the family car?

Will he change names and appear in the US? My native country, the US, by and large absolutely loves unashamed self-promoters who claim that they can create any business from scratch, and are successful at (or by) exploiting and screwing their employees as much as possible. If still in the dark, read up on this industry's disasters in 80's and 90's, even much earlier. Even shareholders were often exploited, or at least until the Enron scandal unfolded.

Now, the US government is suddenly a True Friend of The working man and woman. They can also arrange to sell you lakefront property in Arizona or Utah.

ADC

Tis now on Airliners!!!!! WEll I would be lacking in y public duty had I not let his friends there see him for what he really is...cough...LOSER.
:D

Happiness is a warm L1011....... :p :eek: :rolleyes: :D

As always, one has to admire his neck.

GVJFK, he now deems you to be Reddo, and to have certain motives for your post. He also rubbishes the Daily Star story, but forgets the fact that he can make any claim he likes without evidence, whereas the the newspaper has to research it's facts prior to publication, or leave itself open to being sued for libel.

Anyway, as long as the good people of Scotland, and the wider business community are wise to this conman, at least it's a start.

Happy to report that the Belfast is still happily sitting here in Southend, despite the fact that was "due" in Prestwick about two weeks ago. In fairness the Guvnor did say on Airliners.net well it hasn't...........

and we have !!

:D

l posted the first thread about this on airliners.net but it seems every time l post they think l have some hidden agenda.........so they deleted at and sent me this e-mail :

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A copy of the removed/archived/moved post is included below:
-----------------------------------------

The Truth About Celeidh/Guvnor/Lionair/Lyingair

Posted by Sa365c1 ([email protected])

Hi,

Appearing in my local newspaper another article exposing Neil Robertson to be the scammer that he is..........read on :

------------------------------------------------------

l dont have a hidden agenda l just want to see this guy stopped for pedalling all this nonsense.

regards
Deeko01

Helll The Southend King!
Delighted to know that Essex boys live here as well as us Essex girls.

Mr Neil Robertson can call me Reddo all he pleases. If he is casting aspirsions that I am possibly a communist then good on him. He knows nothing about me or my life. In fact red is my colour, as in hair, choice of airline I love and My blessed Liverpool FC.

My problem with him and all like him is the fact that he is a CON ARTIST, a liar, a fraud, a bamboozler, a fake, a cad, and well a fantasist and thats the nicer things I am prepared to say about the "gentleman" What really boils my blood he the fact that he claims to be a child psychologist and will tell nothing as to his qualifications. Its a touchy subject in my household and well....without been indelicate there are too many people out there who claim they are what they are not to damage others.... That said if he was to verify at least one claim he makes then he may get back0.01% of the credibility he has lost.

Off now to gather up tiles that have found their way from my roof to my garden!!!!!

Robert Vesco...Silver Phyllis....mmmmm good book it was, "The Flying Carpetbagger"...nice uniforms too!:) :D :cool:

That´s right Ironbutt57.

That´s where I got the username from. Amazing book, fun reading. ;)

Makes one wonder what really goes on inside all those cool BBJ´s parked in ZRH, GVA and at Jet Aviation in BSL...... :eek: :cool:

Posted since the above link does not appear to be working :D

Quote from Sunday Mail report:.........

CAPTAIN LYIN' AIR Oct 27 2002


Fly conman wants £2.5m to get 10th airline off the ground

Jamie Macaskill & Billy Paterson



A SELF-STYLED Richard Branson who promises investors his new airline Lionair will make millions is today exposed as a serial conman by the Sunday Mail.

Neil Robertson, 37, who wears an airline captain's uniform even though he can't fly, is trying to raise £2.5million to start up his tenth airline.

He boasts it will be making a £10million profit in three years and claims to have a huge cargo plane which will fly into Prestwick Airport within days to launch the business.

He says on his website that the airport will be the worldwide base of Lionair with eight Tristar jets and 150 staff on salaries of up to £80,000 a year.

But we can reveal it is the latest in a string of fantasy airlines created by the man dubbed Captain Lyin'air.

He has already launched Caledonian Wings - dubbed Con Air - City Connexions, SecureAir, FreshAir, TransOceanic, PegasusAir, Skymaster Freight, Trans Lloyd Cargo and Africargo Airlines.

None of them took off.

Robertson is trying to lure backers with a promise of a 505 per cent return on their investment within three years.

He is offering Lionair shares at 5p each and claims that by 2005 they will be worth 25p. Someone investing £10,000 would have shares worth £50,000 in three years.

One investment analyst said: "It is sheer fantasy in a falling market. It shows what a scam this is."

Robertson's website claims Lionair will become "the leading international force in the supply of global air cargo" and forecasts sales of £30million within three years.

But Deloitte and Touche, the company selling the 38-year-old Shorts Belfast cargo plane Robertson says will launch Lionair, denied having any dealings with him. A spokesman said: "We have not heard of this individual or his company."

Prestwick Airport, where Robertson claims to be based, also rubbished his plans. Managing director Tom Wilson said: "He does not have an office here. Once in the past we met and he's spoken to us about passenger and freight operations but we have yet to see any aircraft at Prestwick.

"So far we have not seen any evidence of aircraft ownership as far as Mr Robertson is concerned.

"We are not aware of him ever owning any aircraft or having a licence to operate any aircraft."

A senior banking source said they doubted any bank would lend money to buy the ancient plane - the last of its type still flying in the world.

The Bank of Scotland, which Robertson claims is his corporate bank also distanced themselves from the conman. They were furious he had named their corporate division as his "service partner".

The bank's spokeswoman said: "He is not a corporate customer and we are trying to contact him to instruct him to remove our logo from his website." The Sunday Mail can also reveal Robertson's fellow director, James Torrance, 64, is a retired cat- food manufacturer with no experience in the airline industry.

He lives in a flat in Troon, which it is believed he shares with his parents. Robertson is beleived to be staying in the town, too.

Torrancesaid he had the utmost faith in Robertson. He added: "I wouldn't be involved in this if I wasn't confident it would succeed."

Asked what his confidence in Robertson was based on, he would only reply: "Because I know what's happening."

Mr Torrance described Prestwick Airport as "only an accommodation address" for Lionair at the moment.

Later, his wife Joyce called the Sunday Mail to complain about our investigation.

She said: "You are the type of worm I could crush," before hanging up.

Robertson, who calls himself "The Guv'nor", went to ground last year after getting scores of inquiries from out-of-work pilots, engineers and cabin crew for jobs in Caledonian Wings.

Yesterday, an aviation source said: "Neil Robertson is a Walter Mitty character. It could seem like harmless fun but it can be harmful to people who are taken in by his claims."



[END OF REPORT]


Cheers


JH

RV

Having flown the real Robert Vesco on several occasions in the 1960's....pilots would be the LAST to know what was goin' on...all he mentioned was...see you next time. ICC ring a bell?

Wonder if he has run out of the $225million already...probably not.:D

Have any of you seen what the guvnor is saying on airliners.net? This pilot pretender says He then goes on to say So according to this guy because he bought a licence and he was the owner of the company he was somehow entitled to wear the uniform. Oh my god, can you believe this? He expects everyone in aviation to accept him as some sort of honourable businessman in aviation.

http://www.pprune.org/images/ndrpilotnot.jpg

Would you trust this fat child psychologist bloke in this uniform?

I see the Guv's friends on Airliners.net have deleted the thread, and any adverse reference to his airline, newspaper story or dodgy psychologist past.

Hope someone took copies.....lots of wonderful quotes on there.

this bloke has more front than blackpool

No,

The Guvnor is a SERIOUS aviation expert and executive. In addition to this, he is about to launch the world's answer to cargo flying, I understand that DHL,Fedex,TNT et al have decided to hold crisis talks and are considering stopping business due to the destabilising effect that LIONAIR will have on their business.......

Get a grip Guv, you are a seriously bad and unfunny joke........sad really.

Interesting bloke though! Seems to know a lot about aviation but I really can't see why he is catalyst to such frenzied attacks. Ok, so what if the guy is a dreamer? what damage does he do apart from wind up some of you guys ? Does anybody have evidence that he has actually taken money from somebody fraudulently? I guess he still blaggs his way into free airline travel but apart from that, I have heard nothing to convince me that he is anything other than either somebody who enjoys living under the limelight or alternatively is a perpetual dreamer!

Surely nobody here really believes that somebody with large sums of money would actually trust it to somebody who is well known in the industry as being a non-starter and dreamer! It is also usual to invest ones own money into a project. Guv, how much of your own money do you have to invest into your project? turn out your pockets Guv and give us a rough estimate of your total worth, say to the nearest 10p

And while you are at it Guv, I seem to remember that you have neither office nor home! let us know about your current source of income. It's always been a mystery to me anyway how you find the money for your food and lodging, Does income support stretch far enough to pay for your ISP connection as well?

I can't really see why you guys want to stop a non-starter or how a non-starter can be stopped! Now here's a revolutionary idea - Just ignore him!

Sensible


I have to agree with you, leave the guy alone...enough written about it already.:)

Reminds me of a post sometime ago where he was advocating a policy of FR flight crews buying their own uniform - something about teaching people to respect property!!

Looks like he took his own advice.

If it wasn't for some of the disturbing 'non-aviation' rumour this could almost be a soap opera.

I have evidence of serious fraud by Robertson. Fortunately for him the institutions involved are too embarrased at being taken for a ride by him that they are trying to get their money back on the quiet.

I have evidence of the instruments he used to set up the accounts and I have copies of the letters from the institutions chasing him for the money. As is often the case, these institutions make allowances for this type of thing and they don't like any publicity showing their shortcomings or vulnerability.

I also have copies of emails from Robertson using one of his known aliases here on PPRuNe and verified through the email address where he wrote to me (unwittingly as he though I was someone else who cared) stating that he had no qualms about defrauding financial institutions "because the can afford it"!

I also have been told first hand by a witness who saw someone who used to frequent PPRuNe write a cheque out to Robertson at one of the smaller PPRuNe bashes. I know that that person has had no return on his 'investment' but lives in hope. That was a few years ago.

I also have first hand evidence by another person who has been ripped off and also had goods stolen from him by Robertson. This person is not just a joke but a serious threat to anyone who gets involved with him... and that is just his business dealings.

We also have someone who impersonates an airline pilot and also predates on the internet pretending to be a child psychologist specialising in child sex abuse. That is an altogether more sinister revelation of which more and more evidence is becoming available every day.

I have copies of CVs taken from a computer he left behind when he last fled from people who were chasing him for money. Both CVs claim that he has degrees in several subjects, one of which is child psychology. The problem is that one CV states he took his degree at the University of St Andrews and the other that he took it at the University of South Africa. Take your pick.

Robertson has never made any attempt to provide evidence of his qualifications stating that it is no ones business but his. I have offered to retract everything I have alleged and print retractions and give him free advertising for his aviation business on PPRuNe if he were to provide evidence. He has my lawyers details and my business address to serve his papers on me if he can prove I am lying.

I am not putting myself up on here for Robertson to accuse me of murder and tax evasion on other websites. His only method of answering all the allegations is to 'spin' some abstract stories with no evidence to back them up and then to attack on unrelated items in a vain effort to deflect attention from his own serious problems.

I am taking this opprtunity to use my own website to state my case and if some of you are too naive to realise the problems someone like Robertson can cause just in his business dealings, I pity you if you are parents.

If you think I and others are being harsh on Robertson then all I can suggest is that you join airliners.net and you will be amongst a small band of naive people who are in awe at someone who dresses up as a pilot but has no qualifications or the other bunch who are rabid right wingers and followers of revisionist history.

Here on PPRuNe we will not let the likes of Robertson get away with his depraved and predatory activities. This is not a joke, this is deadly serious.

Danny
I haven't seen you so angry for some time. I suspect that the Sunday Mail will be contacting you for more information.

It looks like the thread was restored, complete with an explanation by NDR himself.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...d.main/296847/

There were people on this website who defended The Guvnor to the hilt, even when his postings consisted of grotesque attacks on our profession. I particularily remember his involvement in a thread about September 11th which made my blood boil.

What was worse though was to see regular contributors to this site cheering him on.

I would have thought that those twits had by now copped on and realised what they were dealing with.

Gentlemen, Mr.Sensible and Mr.Tan, your naiivete and lack of character judgement beggars belief.

I often wondered what sort of idiots buy into Nigerian email scams etc.

Now I know.

Hello Bubbette.

Nope the thread on airliners has not been restored, that apparently is another one where he accuses our illlustrious leader Capt Pprune himself of hacking into his account. Danny I neither know nor care if you did quite honestly. You strike me as a decent and professional man and I am sorry you and your character are been attacked by this person. For the record I think you are doing sterling work.

Heed Dannys words folks. Mr Robertson is at the very least a dangerous man to know. Extensive investigations into him online are providing shocking truths. I know you will be reading this Mr Robertson, because the flaw in your mixed up personality demands you read all about yourself. It will be your downfall. Trust me you will only go so far before your Walter Mitty world comes crashing down around your ears and you pay for your past life.

Mess with innocence and you get all you deserve.

Regards

The original Boston Belle

Thanks for the clarification GVJFK.

In the absence of Names, dates and details of Neil's alleged frauds, I hold the view that he is more of a danger to himself rather than others. Maybe those considering investing in his pie in the sky schemes would be the ones most likely to benefit from the services of a child psychiatrist!

Neil would have probably made a good double glazing salesman if only he hadn't had the desire to dress up! Come to think of it, why didn't he self sponsor to actually become a pilot then you guys could have pronounced proudly that you had flown with F/O Robertson. Maybe Neil wouldn't have been happy with first officer, he would have wanted to be a captain straight away! I guess Danny joining Astreus and becoming an official Captain is what is bugging Neil!

Lets be absolutely serious here for a moment whilst we all ask ourselves whether an active businessman such as Neil presents himself would actually have the time to sit and post on the Internet all day long? I think not! My opinion is that Neil is just trying to be the big man but lacks the necessary substance.

Neil, you have answers for all of the criticisms levied at you, just answer the questions in my earlier post or are they to be ignored the same as the questions about you aviation and non aviation related qualifications?

You may have guessed by now that some people are beginning to doubt your integrity :D :D

Ladies and Gentlemen

I've been visiting the PPRUNE site since '97. Never have I seen such emotional responses from so many individuals who in some cases put themselves at the same level as The Guvnor. If it continues I'm sure Danny is going to land in legal trouble or worse and for what. Some nut...

Danny; Remember that little piece I wrote back in '98 about the power of the internet and the good it could do for pilots and the industry if we used it's power wisely.... IMHO why would you want to undo all the good work you've done over the years on this issue? It’s not worth it. Let the lawyers handle it. Time to take a step back and assess the situation again, just like handling an in-flight emergency.

I like PPRUNE and sure hate to see it degenerate into something for what it was not intended.
:)

Sensible and Tan.

Tan Sensibly?

Some kind of double act? A hidden message?

EVERYBODY'S FREE TO WEAR SUNSCREEN

Catch Me If You Can
 

It's all been done before I guess..? Only better!!! :cool:

Idunno

In the hopes that I am not lowering myself to your level, how pathetic....

126.9: Thanks a bunch for the enlightening reminder from the 60's. Maybe the paperback reprint can be ordered from Amazon? I wonder how that guy really learned enough aviation lingo and procedures to fit into a crew's flow and checklist challenge/response patterns, not to mention fly. Maybe he had rented a 707 simulator and was almost a genius, in terms of learning curves, after having stolen some Pan Am Aircraft Operating Manuals?
How about the medical and legal procedures to portray himself as various well-trained specialists?

If you guys/gals let this thread degenerate into squabbles with each other, "the Guvnor" will enjoy his indirect influence on you and your resultant frustrations (Schadenfreude :)). Did Nigeria allow pilots to buy their way into an airline pilot job, and offer the "required training"?

Comair and Flight Safety began a similar concept years ago in the US, based on a tentative job after the very thorough turboprop FO training and an interview process, and all for about the price of a US mainline jet type rating! What a progre$$ive, lucrative deal...

I hate getting involved with discussions on this man because you just know he loves the attention, but I agree with the need to keep warning people so long as Mr. Mitty is out there trying to sell his virtual airline. This guy is dangerous, those of you think he's just some kind of harmless Del-Boy style rogue are mistaken. He will try at all costs to fraduantly get money by whatever means, he's relatively smart, listening to him you might be fooled as he appears to have some knowledge of the industry.

I know he tried to get something sorted here in Ireland and even had the nerve to use the names of well respected airline executives and managers in his "Business Plan" who didn't even know about it. The first a CEO here knew about it, whose name was on the plan, was when I showed it to him! And PPRuNe played a very big part in exposing this fraudster and I know for a fact a lot of airline Exec's got the information form PPRuNe. If banks get taken in by him you can appreciate the danger he poses.

I was always worried for the wannabes, desperate to get employment with a commercial airline, here comes this guy promising the earth, widebody flying in a new start up with an ESOP to boot, wow! What a chance! He would have gladly taken the money and run.

So yes PPRuNe is 100% correct to continue to expose this man for what he is and warn others about dealing with him.

Keep up the fight Danny!

Ignition Override
 

I've just read the book again. Its available using ISBN 0-7679-0538-5 if you're interested. Absolutely amazing how the guy did it; even passing the State Bar in Florida!!! :cool:

I can't get anywhere searching with the ISBN number folks, although "Frank W Abagnale" throws up a few offerings.

What's the book called please?



AFWIW, IMHO The Guvnor has spent so much time on this BB putting our profession down that he deserves everything he gets for that alone.

As for pretend Child Psycologists... It's a shame castration without anasthetic isn't an option.

Catch Me If You Can
 

... is the name of the book! If you search the ISBN number (0-7679-0538-5) at Amazon, that should do it! Otherwise try HERE! ;)

He sounds rather like what I have heard and seen of a now extinct Flying school owner who went on to start a DC3 outfitwhich now also is finished. He also liked people looking at him. Is it me or does Aviation attract these sorts.
Cheers. :mad:

...So many owls awakened at midday. Yawn.

But now and then it's good to get worked up emotionally as such;...because one so enjoys resting afterward.:p

I think I have got it figured.... The Guvnor is funded by the C.I.A. To help spread mind bending drugs via his contrails:D

At least till his alarm clock goes off, but seriously:p

Many moons ago I questioned his "business plan" as an amused observer with three grams of knowledge, I got a very nasty e-mail telling me if I did not stop it he would sue me:D

HE inferred he was involved with the security services of this wonderfull country via his backer "Vauxhall cross"(MI5 are based there). When I asked a question only known by anyone with a hint of connection with the security services the answer said it all he is just a sad dreamer, hence his username on airliners.net SAS23.
The only people taken in by him are GREEDY. "A fool and his money"
But isn't that the very pepole he feeds on????????

Vauxhall Cross was one of the aliases he used himself on PPRuNe. Almost every one of the 20 or so aliases we found were used as 'different' people to support Robertson although they were all written by Robertson.