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-   -   Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost.html)

StormyKnight 8th Mar 2014 09:18

@Australopithecus Correct, however the underlying data will be precise, the web site smooths out the flight paths & attempts to predict where a plane is until it gets an update...often aircraft seem to overshoot the runway, only to latter after an update to their location have their position & track corrected.

However once in cruise...with constant airspeed & heading, the depicted map position will be quite accurate. The location, airspeed, heading details for an aircraft are the actual details from the aircraft. You will notice the aircraft moves but these details do not update. The website is calculating where the plane is to give the impression of more regular updates, but it doesn't change the numerical details withe these calculations. It only updates those with the raw (true) data from the plane itself.

p.j.m 8th Mar 2014 09:18

Emergency rescue message to all vessels near by to assist on all aircraft #MH370 pic.twitter.com/WS6ZYReQal


all seems to point to the same location


underfire 8th Mar 2014 09:19

gasflow, there is also the 'pinger' is part of the 'black box' which is located near the top of the fuselage back near the beginning of the tail section. It is meant to survive an incident...

SteinarN 8th Mar 2014 09:19

I also wonder about the damage sustained in 2012 where a part of the wing got cut off. Do anyone know where it could be possible to get more information about the extent of that damage, specifically how many meters of the wing was cut off?

The Rage 8th Mar 2014 09:21

Flight was transfered to HCM at position IGARI. But they never called. Comms and radar contact was lost in that area. Wx in the area was clear. Light chops at Fl370 and Fl390. clear wx all across vietnam. Lights across the country were vissible.
What ever happened, was very sudden. Accars data was lost at same time. Indicating a possible breakup in flight.
Both countries are fully capable of having SAR vessels in the area by lunch or early afternoon. News of wreakage should start to come in soon. The area in concern is covered by both countries military radars. Excact position would not be too difficult to locate.

Cross Check 8th Mar 2014 09:25

120nm SW of Cape Ca Mau would put the aircraft around IGARI - BITOD joining M765 - coincides with the handoff from Lumpur to HoChiMin. Water depth around there is 50-60m give or take so recovery won't be so difficult (compared to say Adam Air years back). Apparently water in flow/out flow from the Gulf of Thailand isn't that fast so drift isn't a major issue either. Based on that, wreakage will be reasonably contained depending on the sea state. There's a gas-rig platform in the area (Bunga Kekwa A), who knows some survivors might be lucky.

Hempy 8th Mar 2014 09:26

Is there full -B coverage on that route or do they switch to contract? If it goes to contract the standard reporting rate is 15 min.

Bobman84 8th Mar 2014 09:26

Originally Posted by SteinarN
I also wonder about the damage sustained in 2012 where a part of the wing got cut off. Do anyone know where it could be possible to get more information about the extent of that damage, specifically how many meters of the wing was cut off?

Equally curious. Catastrophic wing failure explains a few things and has happened before, but one would imagine very unlikely these days?

Hopefully more factual information with regards to the aircraft's confirmed fate comes from the search and rescue team in due course.

threemiles 8th Mar 2014 09:28


ADS-B position data is coming directly from airplanes. There is nothing like inaccuracy, although position quality may be less than RNP-1 for certain airframe/equipment combinations.

Bashing this system is nonsense when it is the only source of data that is available at this time.

FR 24 is not a Russian website, but Swedish and well reputated in my eyes.

More factual:

Aircraft disappeared at 17:22Z from FR24. This may be due to
a) lack of further transmissions for whatever reason
b) failure of ground receiver, however other aircraft where continued to be received
c) failure of FR24 network and server processing

Aircraft had just passed IGARI waypoint and turned right from track 025. Last reported track was 040. If it was to follow M765 it should have turned to heading 058 (can't say what track, don't know variation in the area), but there may be direct routing by VVTS involved. Others flying there will know more.


Last reported FR24 position is N6.97 E 103.63
This equals to N6 58' 11.99" E103 37' 47.99"

FR24 data shows the following sequence (note that ADS-B sends positione about 1 per second, but FR24 consolidates these data to about 1 per minute. Further visible movements of the aircraft are due to FR24 forecast algorithm)



17:13 6.00 103.14 472 025 350

17:15 6.13 103.20 472 025 350

17:15 6.24 103.26 472 025 350

17:16 6.36 103.31 472 025 350

17:17 6.48 103.37 472 025 350

17:18 6.58 103.41 472 025 350

17:19 6.68 103.46 472 025 350

17:20 6.80 103.52 472 025 350

17:21 6.93 103.59 471 040 0

17:22 6.97 103.63 471 040 0

Indication of an altitude of 0 may result from a variety of circumstances depending of the type of Mode-S/ADS-B packet received. FR24 will likely know more because it has much more packets and the type of packets received.

SOPS 8th Mar 2014 09:30

Rage...how do you know ACARS data was lost at that point. Or are you speculating?

onetrack 8th Mar 2014 09:46

The Bunga Kekwa A gasfield, in the PM3-CAA block is certainly in the right spot to have seen the aircraft go down - but how many staff would have been on duty in the wee small hours, and would they have been looking in the right direction?
There must be communications between Bunga Kekwa A and the mainland - surely some information would have come in by now from the platform, if they'd seen anything?

This is certainly a strange and puzzling incident, particularly with the B777's superb accident record. Then again, so was the AF-447 crash a total puzzle.
The major difference this time, it's a Boeing, not a Bus. I can't help but suspect major pilot error/incapacitation here.


underfire 8th Mar 2014 09:48

Given the ADSB system on an aircraft, I would doubt reliability on continued broadcast during an event.

FlyingTinCans 8th Mar 2014 09:51

FR24 is not the only source of data available at this time, it's the only source of PUBLIC available data.

I'm not 'bashing' just trying to highlight to the less informed that a search & rescue operation will not solely be based on an App you can download on your phone that is run from an unregulated company with the help of enthusiasts and hobbyists.
It is a great little graphical tool and I know some of my colleagues wives use it to know when to put the dinner on, anything more than that is just speculation

Al Murdoch 8th Mar 2014 09:51

Image of wing damage:


ManaAdaSystem 8th Mar 2014 09:52

FR24 could be correct, but it could be way off as well. I have seen position shifts and track shifts over Europe many times. It is useful as information only, not proof.
But 0 altitude is 0 altitude, and that is where MH 370 is right now.
A catastrophic failure of some kind. Bomb, terrorist attack or structural failure.
I think they should start looking at the documentation for the wing repair. It would not be the first time a botched repair brought down an airliner, but I'm baffled by the complete lack of communication.

The 777 does send maintenance reports home to base when something goes wrong?

HotDog 8th Mar 2014 09:54

If that is what the Vietnamese Navy Admiral has quoted, looks like that is it. Why for God's sake? This is bad, bad, bad. Bad for aviation, bad for Malaysian Airlines. And if this politicised (and you can almost be sure it will be, reengineering done in foreign ports) even before they know why, I will be writing a letter to my MP (Labor) and will want to know why.

Ida, you are presuming maintenance error by an off shore facility that the average Australian who is convinced that no other nationality is capable of proper maintenance of hundreds of thousand aircraft operating outside Australia. Good luck with your letter to your (Labor) MP. Please post his reply if you get one, shouldd be good for a laugh!

StormyKnight 8th Mar 2014 09:57

Picture of wing tip on "other involved aircraft"


underfire 8th Mar 2014 10:04


FR24 is just a group of people with ADS-B recievers that feed the system...you may have 400 covering an area or 1...

Manadasytem, yes, 777 can be equipped to be monitored by Boeing Center real time..

Flightmech 8th Mar 2014 10:08

MH370 contact lost
Should be sending messages as routine via Boeing AHM. You can configure this down to virtually tell you every time the lab is flushed if you want to pay the extra.

DXBWannabe 8th Mar 2014 10:08

How could that plane keep flying?
Looking at the damage that was done to the right wing, I'm wondering how the plane was allowed to keep flying. How can you even fix the wing when that much damage has been done to it? I'd love to hear some input from maintenance guys and what they think of the situation.

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