SAR question
 

Question about this type of multi-national search effort at sea. Dai Farr points out the coordination challenges. Can anyone describe antecedent examples? In other words, where SAR at sea consisted of several nations not aligned or in synch, participating in a large-area search? Realizing the AF 447 search might be a prior instance, but if so, did it entail such a divergence of nations? And it did not include an assertion of airspace control rights such as PRC has asserted in some regions of South China Sea?
I'd like to think that a fleet CVN of the U.S. Navy could oversee and execute such a search, with or without deployment of aviation and surface assets of other countries, but that thought might tend to be off-topic. Even if popular below decks.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean they would tell anyone before scavenging the debris.

The multilingual reward offer idea is great:D

@Mickjoebill - You're reading a lot more into Interpols secretary-generals statement than what meant. What he was getting at, is that Interpol have a very good, up-to-date stolen passport database, with easy and immediate access - and very few countries are making use of it.
Stolen passports make their way onto the database within hours of being reported stolen - but too many countries are just plain lackadaisical about implementing tighter passport security.
It will take another major disaster for tighter passport controls to be implemented in the Asian countries where lackadaisical attitudes, corruption and personal fiefdoms rule.

@Dai Farr - No, there is no over-arching central command for SAR in a search like this. The reasons being - we're talking a couple of different countries jurisdictions, several different military heirarchies controlling their military equipment, multiple language problems, and a rush to show who can produce the best SAR results.
My money is on the Vietnamese Navys near-new DHC-6-400 Twin Otters producing rapid results today. These aircraft were purchased specifically for maritime patrol and maritime SAR.

https://malaysiaflyingherald.wordpre...-vietnam-navy/

Happened for the MI185 crash at Palembang. Once the investigators started to offer rewards for the pieces, the villages started coming out with the wreckage.

A imm officer sitting at his/her booth stamping passports in routine 8/9hr shifts will not have enough wherewithal and gumption to flag Asians travelling with European sounding names.

Bernama TV Report
 

Just seen on Bernama News, apparently 2 fisherman who were out in the water near the area of concern had seen a low flying aircraft 'below the clouds'.

might turn out to be nothing.

Working together
 

It must be interesting at sea with the RMN, RSN and RTN trying to work together. The animosity runs deep from a cultural point of view - 'face' is VERY important. I ran the sea-going side of the RSN 71-73 and had a mixture of Chinese, Malay, Indian and Thai crews. Huge competition especially with the RMN. One has to question as to why a country with no international waters has a submarine fleet. Answer - simply to keep up with the neighbours.
From experience the Malaysians are not telling the whole story - they hate being wrong - and the witch hunt regarding the passport debacle will have already started.

Interesting responses from onetrack and Stanley11 here:

onetrack: and

Stanley11: If a global UN Search and Rescue organisation were considered unpalatable, might REGIONAL SAR Coordination Centres, each with the authority to control assets from member's forces/emergency services be a better (less sensitive) option than an all-out UN umbrella organisation?

Might UN control of such centres help in the international political arena whilst giving smaller nations a feeling of autonomy at least on a regional level?

Look, joining a "club" is never easy - look at the EU!!!!! Look also at the struggles in and around the former Soviet Union. But human disasters, at least in times of (relative) peace have at least a tacit desire to pull people out of the deep brown sticky stuff. Might such an organisation help in the future?

If, in doing what we have always done, we shouldn't be too surprised that we get what we always got! Change is needed.

I worked and lived in BKK for a while.
Thaisky. Skyeye, Phuket Air Etc.
Tristar and 747.
Was always known and quite common that you should always secure your passport in the hotel apartment safe.
Well know they will take and sell on the black market.
Tourist maybe not as much aware , but working there we know.
Pain in the ass when you have to fly but safer this way.
Not saying in anyway that some one took these that was brought back to a hotel room.
But it happens often.
Really hoping that the bad ones did not take advantage of this.
Time will tell.
As of now all speculation here.
What is known as all of us pilots are aware of this happened fast and was devastating.
But we all know and suspect the bad ones and what they did before.
Yes they are all over Asia also.
Even the best consulates one are now saying criminal act probably.
Sulley etc.
Hope all this is proven wrong soon for all our flying ones sake.
But is starting to smell like a rat.

Since the Electra, flutter has become a well understood and well tested aspect of the aircraft certification process. Designers are capable of specifying proper mass balance of control surfaces. The experimental flight test process verifies that the product is flutter free throughout the envelope, and beyond Vmo & Mmo.

If anyone wants to learn more about Boeing's activity in this area on all of its jet airliner models, . It is a well written history of flight testing of B47, B52, 367-80, 707, 727, 737, 747, 757, & 767 aircraft. The T7 had similar testing. It also discusses flight test anomalies that have not been widely published, such as the deep stall of the T-tail 727, asymmetric and unintended slat deployment on the 737 at speed above Vmo, and another leading edge surprise on the 767. If you understand what the aircraft you fly have been through before you get in them, you will know that MH370 did not break up inflight without some extraneous catastrophic event. The anomalies were addressed with design fixes prior to their being placed in airline operation.

Exactly. The cultural and political issues are huge. Careers will be made or destroyed by this. Not to mention the !@#$% money.

I'm fishing, if we believe the quotes, either he knowns more about the linkage between the passport miscreants and missing aircraft than he can say in public or he is in the dark and has seized the rare moment of international focus on his organisation to promote Interpol's database by saying passport checks will prevent airline crashes..

To put it in perspective, until we know that the passport miscreants took down the flight he should be saying that passport checks will help prevent people smuggling, criminal activities and drug smuggling, the never ending trail of human misery and death toll of which is probably comparable to an airliner crash, just not as newsworthy.

@ Stonevalley - I lived and worked in Malaysia for 3 years and only partly share your assesment. Malay politics are dirty at times, no doubt, and face saving is as everywhere in Asia a big issue but the people I worked with were all highly competent and professional.

We here in Australia should be very careful accusing officials in other countries being corrupt.

Regardless I believe that the Malay Authorities are holding back information. (wrote it before).

Ever seen a F18 pilot use his afterburners at night? For a airline pilot standing on the ground, it made my blood run cold. It would be impossible not to see a explosion like the B777 going up, if indeed she did. Impossible, not with so many boats around as there are there.

Wow, I'm not sure how you can come to such conclusions. Sure, they (not sure who you are implying here) may not do everything to YOUR first world standards but why don't you list down what you would do if you were in charge?
The efforts the region banded together to get through the Boxing day Tsunami disaster was nothing short of impressive, 1.5 world standards? Who would you classify as first world? USA? Western worlds? What was the rescue efforts like at New Orleans after Katrina?

Goodness...

A fine ideal - but in the harsh reality of the cold light of day, and the prickly attitude of most of the worlds countries as regards control of territory within their Maritime boundaries, it just ain't gonna happen. Who would finance such an organisation and who would be given over-arching control? Have you ever tried to organise and take control of a bunch of free-will volunteers? It's impossible, everyone just does their own thing.

A co-operative SAR effort as is now being carried out, will produce the same result as a centrally-co-ordinated SAR, because each group of searchers is homogoneous, with a common language, a disciplined force, and a recognised chain of command. If different SAR groups are searching the same area, even without a central command, any wreckage will be discovered more quickly.

The offering of a wreckage reward to the fisherman and locals is the soundest idea yet produced.

Exactly Stainley 11 ! Well written

If Singapore is running the show, it will be run well. They don't muck around those blokes.

If the report that they're expanding the search area to include the Strait of Malacca is accurate, then they must think there is a possibility that the aircraft not only turned, but that it was aloft for some distance after it turned, correct?

Stanley11/Aisle dweller

You are gentlemen and give people the benefit of the doubt. There are many good people there but the problem is the political and organisational culture.

I've worked in this region for a decade much of it in Malaysia and quite honestly people are feathering their nests, risk-averse and reluctant to make waves. That is my general assessment

Whether the MH370 is being handled well or not is far too early to say but I will be watching it with interest