@funfly
Blackbox can contain a minimum of 25hrs of flight data, apparently. However a CVR (cockpit voice recorder) can record upto 2hrs of audio.

Refer to link: What Is a Black Box?: Air Crash Investigation - National Geographic Channel - UK

Although I linked to that particular article, there are other news organisations that have asked the same questions about Australia's Over the Horizon Radar, including Bloomberg.

UK, AUS, NZ , Canadian and US intelligence surveillance systems are pretty much run as one system, centralized and guided by the US.

The US/Australian OTH radar is a joint operation and therefore it wouldn't even be a case of the Australian "handing over" information. As with GCHQ, this kind of intel is live streamed and patched into the US's global surveillance system.

Australia's OTH radar is not switched on or pointed in any direction, it is on permanently and covers the entire area as shown on the map I posted. One of its prime uses is as a missile defense detector and will track any moving object within its zone of detection.This zone of detection goes out at least 3000 km from the coastline of Australia, and most defence anaylists agree probably quite a bit more.

A large commercial airliner flying within this zone would automatically be detected, especially if it is flying over open water.

CVR: last 2 hours

FDR: last 24 hours

Mariner, perhaps it wasn't very clear but my point was I don't think they are very often packed properly. If shipped according to the regulation it minimises the risk but yes, it is still there (UPS6 anyone?)

Problem is all the joe publics out there who haven't a clue and then worse the freight forwarders who couldn't give a toss and just throw it on without honest documentation. I've worked with freight enough to know that there are a huge amount of either deliberately misleading descriptions or ignorance as to what constitutes a DG by air... Commercial freight is one thing but regular mail going on pax aircraft is a can of worms I hate to think about...

Third hand quote accuracy???
 

I'd suggest that those quotes on all sides are likely very inaccurate, and were taken out of context,.... and were not even properly understood in a relevant context by the recipient? Usually only by finding the aircraft remains, and examining key components such as the E2 and E3 racks or their components, or perhaps information from definitive implicit or explicit sources such as a QAR, CVR, or DFDR, could a useful assertion, let alone a conclusion like that even be reliably made. Otherwise, those kinds of statements at this stage generally reflect a significant media misunderstanding of simple restatements of design objectives and requirements, or certification assumptions or criteria, and not an investigation fact.

The L-I theory
 

I would highly recommend reading the posts at

Lithium-Ion Batteries Linked to Airplane Fires - Slashdot

They seem to know what they are talking about.:hmm:

Inmarsat interview -- VIDEO
 

Interview by Fox's Megan Kelly with Chris McLaughlin, the VP from Inmarsat, regarding the pings and timeline of furnishing the data to the investigation. This is a great, factual interview, and the VP is clear and refuses to speculate beyond his expertise.

Satellite company official speaks out on tracking missing jet after it lost contact | Fox News

A tad pedantic yes .. but ft/s is a velocity. Ft/s/s is an acceleration. I'm not sure where the 3.5 value comes from (a pedant would label it as -3.5) but it seems awfully small to me. At that rate it would take some 28.5 seconds to decelerate from 100 ft/s to a complete stop. That would mean the ELT would activate upon normal braking after a landing.

(Edit to correct time to stop)

You don't need techies on board for that. Just think of all the laptops, smartphones, tablets and the like that pax carry with themselves in any normal flight. Nearly all of them have Li-Ion battery packs.

Anyway, it's extremely unfrequent that they ignite/explode, but if that happened in cabin (i.e. when stowed in the luggage compartments together with coats), there would be a problem...

CVR/DFDR Data Storage
 

Hi All,

Reading your comments on CVR/DFDR data storage capability triggered an obvious question, not directly related to this event: In our high tech, electronic world with unbelievably huge, lightweight, super-fast data storage devices why on earth an advanced "electronic" aircraft has this two hour limit on voice storage???? Just to log a couple of voice tracks from the cockpit. Ridiculous!
(I could recall many events/accidents in recent aviation history where this limiatation was a negative factor in the investigation process.)

Cheers,

Again, there is no evidence to suggest batteries, or anything else in the hold for that matter had anything to do with this event.

currawong

sorry, there is also nothing leading the the conclusion that there were no batteries involved. However, you can paint a likely scenario from it, much better that some highjack or heist or suicide.

Also, remember, oxygen containers were supposedly safe to transport in any aircraft. Until ValuJet....:\

All data just needs to be stored outside the a/c. Including position data.

Balaton
yes I agree but the CVR criteria comes from the days when pilots justifiably didn't trust management and the unions dictated the recording length and the ability to wipe it.
It was introduced in the UK after the Staines disaster in 1972 - sadly not a lot has changed if the recent Nat Geo program is anything to go by.

Hunter58,

not on the same page anymore.

The Valuejet oxygen generators were DG then, as they are now.

They were on board illegally. End of story.

CVR capacity
 

the CVR device also has to survive going in at high speed, being submerged , being on fire. If you can meet all the survival requirements more capacity would be good.

That´s why they were probably marked as hazmat...
Maybe a lot of people supposed that this was purely another authorities bureaucratic nonsense, but those who knew their stuff never supposed them to be safe...

Final destination
 

Some few hundred posts ago….some said the AP would result in a descent rate of 300fpm to maintain flight until it gave up.
Don’t recall IMMarsat giving details of altitude of pings, simply distance. IF already taken into account, please delete this post and would be grateful for link.
Questions:
1 Given the shape of earth, it would depend on the altitude and distance of a/c to be able to talk to satellite, which means there is a minimum and a maximum altitude for satellite horizon areas, according to the distance. True?
2 If true, then would this not change the projected line of flight -from point of fuel exhaustion and altitude (PFEA) into a much broader lane? If true, then
a) how long would it take a/c to touch sea level after George has done his job, taking into account possible altitudes (max to min)?
b) what would be the maximum possible lateral deviation of a/c from PFEA to sea level, taking into account one engine running on air before the other (which means the lane gets broader still)?

A bit of confusion here.

In this context, 3.5 ft/s is indeed a velocity - specifically it's the change in longitudinal velocity required to activate the ELT, provided that's also accompanied by a minimum longitudinal acceleration of (minus) 2G.

At least that's the simplified version, there is actually a curve of G-vs-duration that defines the exact conditions required for activation.

As to the Lithium-Ion batteries there have been concerns for a while and discussions between IFALPA, IATA, ICAO. For now they are acceptable to be carried in devices. i.e. we all want our iPads delivered on time, eh? It is not unusual to be flying with maybe 3 tonnes of the batteries in their devices.

Sorry, not picking on anyone specifically but here is a statement from further up that is an example of assumption based on no facts what-so-ever that should not be made and we are seeing a lot of that:
"If MH379 was operating in LNAV which seems to have been agreed"
Surely it is not up to us or anyone to agree about the flight conduct without facts?