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US Officials Have 'Indication' Malaysia Airline Crashed into Indian Ocean - ABC News So we have two main media sources saying different things...again. Perhaps everyone needs to just slow down a bit. Chaotic information releases. |
RG:
From what an airline source/Malaysia press conference previously released: (1) They do not appear to have the sattelite option for ACARS, using the VHF option instead. (2) They apparently did not exercise the "Boeing tracks our ACARS" option in their support contract with Boeing. Some pages back, a PPRuNer provided a map with a series of notional, overlapping VHF range circles and ground station locations to give an idea of where you would expect to see ACARS(VHF) be able to receive data from an aircraft in flight at cruise altitudes. You can see that there is a bit of a gap west of Thailand. IF, as also discussed in this thread, the RR data system only sends info when something changes, as opposed to "every x number of minutes," then it is very plausible that no message was sent until the plane was in that gap, IF that gap is where it ended up. As you can see, there is a lot of "IF" going on there. Beyond that, no comment on why Uncle Sam thinks the bird went down in the IO. |
Originally Posted by highflyer40
(Post 8372469)
Malaysian official said they contacted rolls Royce and Boeing and both said their data stopped at same time as Malaysians... that should put a stop to the 4 hour engine data saga, there is no way that both those companies would keep quiet if someone else was telling porkies about their companies!!
First. Can you please provide a link for this information? And second. Then why is the aircraft being searched on Indian Ocean? How can the ACARS datalink have stopped at the same time as the aircraft went off radar and the same aircraft have flown hundreds of miles West without transmitting any downlink? Would someone please care to explain? |
Pinch of salt...
There have been so many leaks, which have then been dismissed by the Malaysians, that it's easy to start taking a pinch of salt with every new tidbit that pops up. Even so-called reliable media sources have seen their sources dismissed.
So what, if anything, do the US know that led them to redeploy the Kidd at top speed? |
New search grid
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JMO, of course, but I think that high level politics is going on here. Civilian unrest meets DHS, whether of the USA, or China, or another sovereign state. Given the sophistication of modern military science, I think one or all know what happened, and where it is, and figure that high level security requirements take priority, and since they're all dead, they don't care. Let everybody run around like headless chickens, that's the price. JMO, as I said.
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If MH370 turned west from its last known position and, if it passed close to Pulau Perak as reported earlier by the Malaysian authorities, it would be on a track of 255 degrees (approx.). If it had enough fuel for 3000 nautical miles it could have come down about 200 miles south of the Seychelles.
A lot of "ifs", I know, but is this the scenario the Yanks are investigating? |
Barrel_owl
If, and it's a big IF, the US is onto something in the Indian Ocean, then a whole lot of questions suddenly pop up, don't they?
Like how come RR and Boeing apparently have no data supporting the theory? Like why the heck they've wasted 5 days searching an area where they seem to think the aircraft didn't go down? Like who is actually directing the SAR ops? And many more... |
If it is found in the Indian Ocean, I along with quite a few others have stated that it might be there on this thread, obviously a hunch. Depressurisation would be the main candidate if it was found to be there I would have thought. The Malaysians might be in for an even rougher ride if MH370 flew straight back over their heads during the incident and rightly so.
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EEngr
Thank you for the information, I was trying to figure out how accurate the search was, so in theory if it was there they would have come across it. If the decompression/hypoxia/reciprocal heading theory that many people suggest is anything to go by the MSAs around North Sumatra are high up to 13400, that terrain could hide an aircraft as well. It took a while to locate the sukhoi crash although weather did play a part hampering the search.
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The search area given by The Telegraph would make sense if it was established that the unidentified radar contact heading west was not picked up by Indian primary radar on the Andamans or Nicobars. The logical thing would be to comb that radar coverage gap in the middle with no primary radar coverage from either side.
If the "UFO" diverted to the SW (direction Diego Garcia) in that potential radar gap nobody would have noticed. Such a hypothetical diversion would bring into play the Pentagon. In Diego Garcia there must be some impressive surveillance equipment, AWACS and the like. Maybe something was picked up there ? |
I was about to ask the same thing.
Both Boeing and RR deny receiving any ACARS and either they are lying or telling the truth. If they are telling the truth there is a third possibility: that ACARS was being sent but they didn't receive them. Otherwise, why is this Destroyer being deployed at high speed to what should be the wrong position. |
So what, if anything, do the US know that led them to redeploy the Kidd at top speed? |
How feasible is this scenario?
To those who fly/work on 777s... How feasible is this?
1. Rapid decompression caused by exploding crew oxygen tank, or decompression aggravated by fault in cockpit oxygen tank/line; 2. Pilots don masks but there is no oxygen flowing and they aren't aware; 3. Pilots initiate descent and course reversal but mess up the interaction with the MCP and command FL295 instead of FL100 or similar; 4. Pilots become incapacitated within 30-60 seconds (time of useful consciousness as per source - http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset.../nov/20-23.pdf); 5. Incapacitated pilots inadvertently turn transponder to off or standby; 6. Pilots go unconscious as plane flies towards Andaman Islands/Bay of Bengal; 7. If spoilers had been deployed, A/T commands sufficient thrust to maintain (or attempt to maintain) MCP altitude and override effect of spoiler deployment; 8. Aircraft at near-max thrust runs out of fuel much more quickly than aircraft at cruise thrust, falls into the Bay of Bengal between Andamans and India/Sri Lanka. What technical factors support or invalidate the above chain of events? Thanks for all the input... |
Originally Posted by cynar
(Post 8372499)
This is a big scoop for ABC news. Author is Martha Raddatz, absolutely impeccable sources and credentials, great, seasoned reporter.
What's becoming clear to me is that the U.S. (Pentagon and NTSB at very least) have better intel than the Malaysians, and, to protect the extent and sources of such data for reasons of national security and international relations, have had to find back-channel ways (the NTSB radar "advisors," NASA, etc) to leak the correct location of the aircraft to the Malaysians so as to seem to have them organically find it. Unfortunately, with Vietnam etc. making good-faith efforts and taxing resources in a humanitarian gesture, the U.S. can't wait, sources are leaking to hurry this up. You can bet that was okayed at the highest levels and we have been talking to China. My current theory is that the plane was hijacked but that the pilot flew it out into the ocean rather than to the specified destination. This also helps explain why Douglas Feith, well-respected former NTSB investigator, was on air recently floating the turn-back/hijack scenario. At the time I thought he'd lost his bearings in all the media hype. Maybe more likely he had inside info.
Originally Posted by barrel_owl
(Post 8372507)
Wait. Two questions.
First. Can you please provide a link for this information? And second. Then why is the aircraft being searched on Indian Ocean? How can the ACARS datalink have stopped at the same time as the aircraft went off radar and the same aircraft have flown hundreds of miles West without transmitting any downlink? Would someone please care to explain? |
Originally Posted by mabuhay_2000
(Post 8372519)
If, and it's a big IF, the US is onto something in the Indian Ocean, then a whole lot of questions suddenly pop up, don't they?...
The United States Navy has four Ohio class ballistic missile submarines on patrol at any given time, the United Kingdom has one Vanguard class ballistic missile submarine on patrol at any given time and France has one Le Triomphant class ballistic missile submarine on patrol at any given time, giving the US and its NATO allies potentially six submarines that could have detected wreckage. Their patrols, routes etc are highly classified and none of the three nations would admit that one of their ballistic missile submarines was in the area, hence the way this might be being played out. There is even a possibility, especially in the case of the US, who are more likely to have one submarine in the area, they've sent one of their submarines to look in some deeper water, and they'll worry about explaining away any questions later. |
AWACS are far and few, not usually in that area
They rarely are in that area and wouldn't be in an air defense role unless there were an active operation.
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New search area in Indian Ocean
It seems that the White House is better briefed than the Pentagon press office. Jay Carney, the White House spokesman, has just confirmed thata new search area*may be opened in the Indian Ocean, reports the Guardian’s Paul Lewis in Washington.“It is my understanding the one possible piece of information, or pieces of information, has led to the possibility that a new search area may be opened up over the Indian Ocean,” Carney said, without detailing the nature of the new information.He said discussions were ongoing with international partners to “deploy the appropriate assets” in any new search in the Indian Ocean. He added the new search would be based on “additional information” that was not yet “conclusive”.His comments appear to*confirm that earlier story*by ABC’s Martha Raddatz. |
I've always wondered how we get from 29.92 to a 1013.25 baseline myself. 1 bar = pressure exerted by a force of 1 kilogram-force over a unit surface area of 1 square centimeter. The official pressure unit is now the Pascal : 1 Newton over 1 square meter, hence 1 bar = 100 000 Pascal, 1mbar (millibar) = 100 Pascal aka 1 hPa (hectopascal) |
Missing Malaysia Airlines flight live: Satellites picked up 'electronic ping' from missing flight MH370 after it lost contact with ground control - Daily Record
More details now on the 'electronic ping'. A source close to the investigation said communications satellites picked up faint electronic pulses from Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 after it went missing on Saturday. However, the signals gave no indication about where the stray jet was heading nor its technical condition. The "pings" equated to an indication that the aircraft’s maintenance troubleshooting systems were ready to communicate with satellites if needed, but no links were opened because Malaysia Airlines and others had not subscribed to the full troubleshooting service, the source said. |
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