PPRuNe Forums - Aircraft Crash in Moscow

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sevenstrokerroll

Quote:

Indeed I recall the expression: we were so light that someone had to shoot us down to get it to stop floating the runway away.

:ugh:

Instead of someone doing that , why YOU do not use proper Vref. Here we come again to idiotic "pilot visdom". aaa never bellow 120 ( or 130) depends on airline

You do not visit liveleak much,
Right ?

re Quote: from rog747
is the 757 also when empty, a bit of a slippery handful to land?
reply from douglasflyer
It was a Tupolev 204... (btw i knew the a/c here was a Tupolev,)

thank you darksoldier :)

however
one of my queries was about if the 757 was ''also'' a bit slippery when light

from one of close friends who i just spoke to who is a skipper on a UK airline on 757/767 he said it does require one's full attention to slow it down

thank you

I found the B757 difficult to fly smoothly at very low weights. The B767/300 could be tricky too, but it was not as bad. Slipperiness was not the main problem, an excess of power, pitch changes and general twitchiness could catch you out, especially if operating at near to or max weight was the day to day norm.

CVR and FDR are found, also ATC recordings are seized for investigation. Four dead, four very seriously injured. Still not clear how much was aboard (8, 10, 11 or 12).

Last photo of the plane (VKO, 29/12/12, 16:30-16:35MSK)

http://russianplanes.net/images/to95000/094177-300.jpg http://russianplanes.net/images/to95000/094178-300.jpg

As discussed at russianplanes, second photo is made when the plane was around here and still 10-15 m high.

Video from resque site: Москва-24 (Attn! Shocking content).

dear green guard...

of course you should use the proper Vref...that's the whole idea...but I know in two different jet transports, the vref cards sometimes dont' go that low.

the whole point is to fly right and some folk fly wrong.

Quote:

Video from resque site: Москва-24 (Attn! Shocking content).

Very difficult to watch :{

Runway End Safety Area (RESA)

ICAO Annex 14 requires a 90m RESA at the ends of runways such as this one.

Furthermore, it recommends the distance should be 240m. Looking at the Google Earth view and using the ruler it appears that the distance from the end of the paved surface to the motorway is in excess of this recommended distance; about 350m I think.

Looking at the video there appears to be wall of some sorts between the hard shoulder and the perimeter fence, but being beyond the RESA it could be argued it was not a factor from a regulatory perspective. But, how long should a RESA be?

Very sad about the loss of life, but could you imagine if it had been a bus on the motorway?

@SGC "...but could you imagine if it had been a bus?"

What do you mean by this?

Sorry, see edit for clarification. Bus not 'bus. SGC

kulverstukas - thanks for a great diagram - it always frightens me when I see how many runways have a bloody great ditch at the end...............

Ditch or no ditch there is at least 200 m of rough terrain (with added friction) before you get there. Judging by the speed that the wreakage hits the car the aircraft must still have been travelling at one hell of a speed when it left the paved surface.

A completely empty aircraft can usually be stopped well within 1000m so this strikes me as something a bit more than a deep landing.

Edit: The photo above is (according to translation from the website where it is posted) taken from a point 350m from the threshold at which point the plane is 10-15m high. This is a height that the plane would normally be at the threshold which would normally result in touchdown 300-400m in. So at very worst here the touchdown would be some 700-800m in. This would still allow 2000m plus to stop the aircraft. Something doesn't quite add up.

@Kulverstukas

Do you mind to translate?

thx

http://www.flyredwings.com/

Quote:

So at very worst here the touchdown would be some 700-800m in. This would still allow 2000m plus to stop the aircraft. Something doesn't quite add up.

Be that as it may, passing the last touchdown marker at 50 feet and not going around... :=

Google Translate

From the Redwings Website

Quote:

Dear friends ,

We have a large mountain ... On December 29, at 16.37 aircraft RA-64047 returned without passengers to Moscow from Pardubice.
crash occurred.
Of the eight crew members were killed 4 people.
We lost our colleagues - Gennady Shmelev Astashenkova Eugene, Igor Fisenko and Eugene Zhigalina.
We mourn and express their condolences to the families, relatives, friends of the victims ...
We will not leave the family without the support of our colleagues at this difficult time for all of us.

The aircraft commander Gennady Shmelev was born on 21 November 1954. Krasnokutskaya graduated flight school in 1977. He came to the aircraft immediately after the summer school. Went from the 2nd pilot to the aircraft commander. Given the award for accident-free flying 7,000 hours in 1999. Repeatedly encouraged for honest work and accident-free flying.

2nd pilot Astashenkov Evgeny was born on 20 January 1960. Graduated Sasovo civil aviation flight school in 1984. He came to the aircraft immediately after the flight school to the position of 2nd pilot. Has the bar for trouble-free flying third degree. Repeatedly encouraged for honest work and accident-free flying.

Flight Engineer Fisenko Igor was born on 28 March 1958. He graduated from the Moscow Institute of Civil Aviation in 1984. He came to the position of the Air Force aircraft technician after graduation. Has the bar for trouble-free coating. Repeatedly awarded thanks and gifts for the hard work and accident-free flying.

Stewardess Zhigalina Eugene M. was born June 24, 1987. She graduated from the Aviation Training Center Vladivostok Avia, in civil aviation since 2011.

The site is closed for technical reasons.
apologize.

Hour information service: +7 (495) 212-12-51 (Moscow and Moscow Region), 8 (800) 555 24 51 (free from Russia) Operational information is available on the official Red Wings in Facebook, VKontakte and Twitter.

Does anyone know the reason for flying ferry?

Tech?

not exact translation.

1. Instead of mountain there should be sadness, obviously.
2. Out of 8 people, 4 were killed and one later died at the hospital.
3. Up-to-date information is available on the official Red Wings in Facebook, VKontakte and t-w-i-t-t-e-r.

I am not sure how you, guys can read that google translation. If somebody needs it to be translated correctly and in a readable way, I could do that.