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-   -   Dear International Pilots, You Are Not Welcome In Europe (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/482175-dear-international-pilots-you-not-welcome-europe.html)

ArcticChiller 15th May 2012 12:20

KAG,
that's not new, you are right. It is the implementation of the regulations. Even with PPLs. If a European pilot wants to fly in the US he needs a validation. It is valid as long as the foreign licence is current. If you want to do that in Europe it needs much more paperwork, it is valid for one year and you can do it only once in a lifetime. The second time an American goes for a Eurotrip with a rental plane he needs a stand-alone EASA PPL. Doesn't matter if he flies triple 7 at work and hundreds of hours in his free-time. My English isn't good enough to tell how stupid those EASA rules are.

M-ONGO 15th May 2012 13:40


The notion that I have to take a load of exams on nonesence such as lattitude nuts in a DI because i haven't had a JAR IR for 7 years is nonesence. I have a perfectly good IR from an authority which is at least as demanding as the UK CAA, and I renew it every six months. It's like asking a doctor to retake his Biology GCSE on return to the UK after working elsewhere for 7 years.
I totally agree Dan Winterland. This 7 year rule is shocking for those of us who operate on other ICAO licences.

ironbutt57 15th May 2012 16:18

So I cannot operate an "N" registered plane based in Europe?

M-ONGO 15th May 2012 18:30

No, you can operate an"N" reg in Europe. There are moves at present to have all EU domiciled crews of foreign registered aircraft have EASA licences though. The other issue here is for those of us with both or more licences, if the JAA,CAA,EASA or whatever it is this weeks IR lapses over seven years we have to do the ATPL exams and a flight test.

dns 15th May 2012 19:38

Sorry guys, I'm a little confused too...

I'm a British citizen but I hold an FAA PPL. Am I allowed to fly a European registered aircraft in Europe?

aviofreek 15th May 2012 20:49

OK so if I'm not mistaken, training wise, if I go to US, do my FAA CPL/ME/IR and wanted to convert to Euro land license, same rules still apply? I.e. pass in all ATPL exams, 15 hour IR training and a skill test for CPL/ME/IR?

ironbutt57 16th May 2012 02:02

An AIP/airlaw exam would make sense for sue, but a full licence?, flown airliners to Europe countless times, just didn't see the air or terra firm being that much different...another EU boondoggle..ETS, this, where does it end?

SFI145 16th May 2012 11:37

What I don't understand is that our 'elected' lawmakers have had two chances of harmonisation in the last 15 years. The first was the birth of the JAA and the second the death of the JAA and birth of EASA. Instead of all this nonsense why did EASA and the FAA not sit down and agree a total commonality between the two licences?
Then we would be close to having a truly international licence in the spirit of the toothless ICAO. If you have a driving licence I can understand it might be restricted to your issuing country due to local procedures. However if I have a UK pilots licence I can fly anywhere in the world in a G registered aircraft. Surely the time has come for ICAO to make a stand and require pilot licences to be valid worldwide on any nationality aircraft.

BALLSOUT 16th May 2012 13:33


I'm a British citizen but I hold an FAA PPL. Am I allowed to fly a European registered aircraft in Europe?
You can at the moment as there is an exemption until April 2014. After then you can only fly N registered aircraft in Europe on an FAA license. You can probably extend the deadline by another year by asking for a validation from April 2014, this will last until April 2015.The further problem to this is there will be few N registered aircraft in Europe by then as if they live in Europe, they will have to be re-registered or removed from Europe. As far as PPL's are concerned, I doubt if there will be much difficulty in transferring to EASA, unless you have a medical problem of course. You would then have to consider either the NPPL in the UK, or the E LAPL for the whole of Europe.

WorkingHard 16th May 2012 18:02

"I'm a British citizen but I hold an FAA PPL. Am I allowed to fly a European registered aircraft in Europe"

Well I am a British citizen with a British registered C172 and a British PPL valid for life BUT from April 2014 it will be illigal to fly my own aircraft unless i have converted my valid for life PPL to a 5 year very costly EASA licence !!!!

BALLSOUT 16th May 2012 22:29


Well I am a British citizen with a British registered C172 and a British PPL valid for life BUT from April 2014 it will be illigal to fly my own aircraft unless i have converted my valid for life PPL to a 5 year very costly EASA licence !!!!
I believe the EASA license is also a lifetime one. You will also be able to fly it on an LAPL, ( Light Aircraft Pilots License) I expect this will be cheaper than the PPL and only needs your medical carried out by your own GP.

aviofreek 17th May 2012 22:22

ICAO - established April 1947 by leading aviation professionals
EASA - established July 2002 by cheap non-aviation pencil pushers and bean counters

ICAO - tries to fight global warming with knowledge and cutting edge technology
EASA - fights everyone and dictates financial fees to fight global warming (??!!!)

ICAO - unique license for an aviation professional (because laws of physics and air is the same everywhere on the planet)
EASA - special, very expensive "european" license for anyone wishing to fly in (not so)United states of Europe, regardless of your experience and professionalism (because air and laws of physics are somehow different on the Old continent than the rest of our planet)

ICAO - promotes aviation on worldwide basis
EASA - closes aviation for EVERYONE

EASA, please take off your pants and sit at the end of a very long and wide vertical pole.
Thanks

WorkingHard 18th May 2012 08:01

BALLSOUT - you may well be correct but that licence will not get me into the airways for longer journeys and will considerably reduce my despatch rate and as far as I am aware is restricted to VFR only.
As others have said it is a pointless exercise by pointless bureaucrats with little knowledge of the real world.

BALLSOUT 18th May 2012 08:30

WorkingHard You may well be correct in what you say and i don't disagree with you. I was merely confirming what was now available, be it good or bad. I don't think it's just aviation, the lunatics seem to be running most asylums these days!

Dan Winterland 20th May 2012 04:41

It's just pointless regulation with little regard to pilot's real skills or experience.

Desert185 20th May 2012 15:44


"I'm a British citizen but I hold an FAA PPL. Am I allowed to fly a European registered aircraft in Europe"

Well I am a British citizen with a British registered C172 and a British PPL valid for life BUT from April 2014 it will be illigal to fly my own aircraft unless i have converted my valid for life PPL to a 5 year very costly EASA licence !!!!
Bureaucratic control, over-taxation and loss of freedom. Time for another tea party, methinks. Resistance is not always futile...

Sad. Sorry folks. Hopefully, we in America will break the trend this November before its too late.

BristolScout 23rd May 2012 13:56

It would indeed have been tremendous if EASA and FAA could have sat down and thrashed out a common licence standard. Unfortunately, the US has seen fit to file so many differences with ICAO Annex 1 over the years that there has never been sufficient common ground.

RVR800 1st Jun 2012 08:44

Vested Interest
 
All this is beaurocratic vested interest dressed up with spurious "safety" related issues - its also essentially none-democratic... but hey this is the EU :ugh:

fdr 4th Jun 2012 12:45

It may be worse
 
There are numerous jurisdictions where the EU licence is being used as a basis of the 3rd states licence, and there are little caveats that the validation is only effective with the continued validity of the basic licence.... Your Easa licence may become a mill stone to your 3rd party flying... Check your contracts and locall Part 61 equivalents....

Good luck.


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