PPRuNe Forums - Capt Burkill to re-join BA

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Capt Burkill to re-join BA

What about his seniority?

I do not know this chap at all

and I am not a pilot but am industry on the ground.

I have no doubt at all that the actions of the Crew saved the hull and pax from a very nasty prang. fair play to both of the guys at the sharp end and the boys and girls in the cabin.

Is my track of this one correct?

Capt took VR from BA?

Capt posted response on PPrune stating wife has to work 2 days a week? as he could not find work as a B777 driver?

Capt and wife #3 wrote book?

#3 left

Money ran out?

Now back at BA?

I gess here, SFO upgrades knocked back by one?

Just proves some clouds do actually have silver linings. Good on both BA and Capt. Burkill.

If he gets back his old seniority position then surely all the pilots' contracts have been contravened, and seniority has been made a mockery, hero or not.

As a Nigel who was/is junior to Captain Burkill, I have no problem with him resuming his previous seat, even if my seniority drops by one place.

IMHO, his judgement was clouded (for what I would hope are obvious reasons!) when he made the decision to leave. I believe common sense has prevailed.

If you leave a seniority list that's it. You cant just say sorry that was a bad idea and come back, otherwise where would it all end?

I'm very pleased that he is rejoining BA.

He seemed to have got a lot of 'stick' from his colleagues which obviously got him down and he felt he had to leave BA.

Well done to BA for letting him back, a happy ending at last and shame to the BA colleagues who slagged him off.

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If you leave a seniority list that's it. You cant just say sorry that was a bad idea and come back, otherwise where would it all end?

With a very particular set of circumstances with both parties realising it could have been handled better? Wise men allow exceptions to even good rules, which are for guidance rather than prisons for men.

Hear hear - the man was responsible for saving over 150 lives due to an incident which arose through no fault of his own (or of his FO).

I am delighted he has been re-instated in his old position and at his old seniority level and wish him the very best for his future career with BA.

Awaiting the arrival of 411A:{

Quote:

If you leave a seniority list that's it. You cant just say sorry that was a bad idea and come back, otherwise where would it all end

Tricky one this, do you make an exception in this case or do you have to consider applications for remployment from everyone who took voluntary redundancy and is now regretting the decision.

That said the circumstances of Pete's departure were somewhat exceptional and I have a lot of sympathy for him, I'm another one who believe's Pete's judgement was clouded by the things that happened and things that were said at BA in the aftermath of the accident.

Other people will be able to confirm this with greater knowledge than I but many years ago when BEA HR was called Mr Stephenson and flight managers had some authority a fairly newly promoted Trident captain ( Howard ******? ) went downhill and eventually became a "down and out". He lost his wife and family. Then one of the company doctors became aware of this chap, realised he was suffering from an affliction which could be treated, and dealt with him. He recovered and was re- instated after being sick for a couple of years. Don't know about his "dragon" though. Also, although the contract specified a maximum sick leave of six months flight management authorised extensions in some cases. One guy I know was on full pay for a year and then on half pay for a further few months until he regained his medical category. It may have cost the airline a few quid but the effect on morale was worth it and we even stopped slagging off the flight manager for a short time.

There is a precedent for this already. One of our SFO's returned after overcoming a medical problem - he was away for a number of years. Everybody was pleased to see him back and the "loss" of a single place didn't upset too many.

I lost 330 places just after joining BA - but that's another story.........

Am pleased to hear this news. In this case, I say b****r the seniority list! Difference between doing "things right" (aka management) and doing "the right thing" (leadership) - BA have shown leadership, in my opinion.

I am delighted for Peter.

The immense stress that he was under after this incident has been recognised and he has been vindicated by the AAIB report.

I am really chuffed for him. One place of seniority doesn't matter. Or it shouldn't.

Just think how you'd like to be treated in the same circumstances............

Well done to the two senior BALPA reps who have massively influenced this.

You know who you are and well done to both of you.

Happy to lose a place on the list for Peter.

Well done Peter - and also BA for showing some compassion.

Great news! ! :ok: nice to hear that BALPA achieved something positive too, although I think taking someone out for a curry & a few beers also fell into this category ;)

Brilliant.

Deserved and appropriate

Best of Luck to Peter and his family

About a year ago almost to the day, I wrote this reply to a thread in the Terms & endearment forum on this subject.

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So where is the help?

You go to work everyday and then one day something serious happens. Suddenly the skills, reactions and responses that you trained and briefed all those years for, are compressed into a few seconds, where what you do will have an impact that will affect hundreds of people for years afterwards.

Through no fault of your own, a large transport aircraft suffers a total power failure on the edge of a highly populated city at a late stage of its landing approach. The actions of the crew throughout and immediately afterwards result in everybody surviving and the only obvious significant damage being that to an insured lump of metal.

Despite a very positive outcome that results from the crews control, it is ironic in that it will probably be the last time they have very much control of anything that happens subsequently. With any serious incident or accident, there is an enormous level of trauma and stress that will affect all of the participants. Initially this is masked by the adrenalin and plethora of events taking place around you. The adrenalin will wear off over a few days, but the stress usually won't. The results for the individual can (and will) run an entire spectrum of emotions and physical consequences. Recovery from this condition takes time, and that period of time varies enormously from person to person. It is also often a great deal longer than the individual themselves thinks.

Despite a fantastic outcome, this accident was obviously a very high profile one. As soon as it happened, a whole host of machines went into action. The worlds press decended. The airlines management and public relations departments went into overdrive. The various operational and regulatory authorities demanded information. The Sky news/ CNN/ ITN/ BBC viewing public either had their own "expert" opinion on what happened, or wanted to have someone else provide one for them in a a 30 minute rolling news clip. Like the audience in a roman gladiatorial contest, they wanted to give their thumbs up or down as they were guided to see fit. They wanted labels, hero's and villains.

There can't have been many professional airline crewmembers who didn't cringe at the spectacle of this clearly traumatised crew being paraded before the worlds press within 24 hours. The smiles didn't hide a great deal. No doubt the action was by consent and seemed a good idea in the overall context of corporate support and good P.R. However it didn't appear to be putting the interests of the crewmembers welfare paramount?

With the media circus in full swing, as it became obvious that answers were (as often is the case) going to outlive the attention span of a soundbite audience, so others sought their 3 minutes of fame with their own tittle tattle, previously innocuous photographs, and supposed human interest stories. The TV cameras were quickly off covering something fresher, but the newspapers are able to extract a longer story lifespan by knocking down the heros they or a competitor created. Nevertheless, good, bad, hero, villain it all serves to fill the space that has to be sold for a profit.

In the meantime what happens to the individuals involved? How do they cope with the stress left behind after the interest has waned? How do their families cope? What are the long term repercussions? How have their own lives been changed? What help is still being afforded to them?

There must be a very real desire to make it all just go away and reset the world to a previous point in time, that is simply not going to happen. There must be a desire to eventually dismiss help, and simply get things back to a perception of normality. Even "professional celebrities" shun the stress that comes from the attention. Those that never courted it, must find it a greater version of hell. The unforseen consequences start to become apparant.

So my question is, where is the help for these people, but in this context, the crew involved in this accident? Irrespective of the fact that someone sought voluntary redundancy, I believe (and perhaps they do to) the previous employer has a moral obligation to provide whatever support and assistance it realistically and conceivably can. What of the pilots union (if one was involved)? What influence and pressure can their offices bring to help and support these individuals in continuing their careers and rebuilding their lives?

These are special cases that deserve special treatment. There will have been a great deal of stress and trauma to be overcome, and it is entirely justified that those with a vested interest and the ability to do so, go out of their way to provide whatever assitance they can.

I am very pleased that after a period of time, all parties have shown a high degree of common sense, maturity and compassion. For those people whinging about seniority lists etc. These were very unusual circumstances with profoundly extenuating aspects. I am sure mistakes were made on all sides, and it is entirely right and proper that the situation is restored as closely as possible to that that existed at the time of the incident, for all parties. Well done to everybody concerned and involved. Hopefully this family can now resume their lives in a manner that best suits themselves.

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If you leave a seniority list that's it. You cant just say sorry that was a bad idea and come back, otherwise where would it all end

Maybe not, but this is an exceptional case and I'm glad commonsense has finally prevailed. :ok:

Despite that, I understand the contract is yet to be finalised and I'm pretty sure as much as BA may be happy for Pete to retain his original seniority, they will be very reluctant to bring him back on PP24. There is also the fact that he walked away with a significant amount of redundancy, which again the company aren't just going to write off.

Good news for Capt. Burkill. Whilst a few may have lost a seniority position, this guy played a major role in saving many lives. The circumstances of his re-instatement are rare and therefore a rare 'excursion' from the rules is justified. Surely justice has been done.......I bet the survivors from BA38 would wish for this outcome. I wish him well.
Helen49

Thanks and Goodbye

Thanks so much for all your support.

I am delighted that the discussions with British Airways, have come to a mutually, happy conclusion. In my opinion British Airways is the pinnacle of any pilots' career and it is my honour and privilege to be returning to an airline that I joined as a young man.
As a British Airways employee, I will comply with British Airways rules on Social Media interaction. My family and I would like to take this final opportunity to publically express our thanks for all the support we have been given over the past couple of years, from family, friends, colleagues and strangers. We are looking forward to resuming a 'normal' life and anonymity once again!

"Mmmayday38" signing off :ok:

Helen49 - not only saved lives (isn't that enough?) but if BA had took a total loss that day it would have had a humungeously bad impact on employee jobs. (Swissair anyone?). So whose seniority would he be displacing exactly?

Congratulations Peter, at last some common sense seems to have prevailed.

Well done Peter, and as the saying goes,

"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."

And thankfully you have found some of the wise men in BA management, you deserve it.

I'm not a pilot (yet, although I have asperations :p) and have no flying experience at all (apart from being a passenger). But from what I have read and seen about this incident, the pilot and crew not only saved the lives of everyone on board, but possibly countless people on the ground that were in the way at the time just outside the fence.

In my humble opinion they all deserve medals the size of diner plates and at the very least the right to continue doing what they do best.

Great news on this outcome, my very best to Peter and his family. :D

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Awaiting the arrival of 411A

You called?:E

The concerned Captain demonstrated, at a quite critical time, an unusual ability to 'think outside the box' (by selecting a lower flap setting), something many pilots are unable to do, so...his re-hiring is, in my opinion, a good thing.
I would futher suggest that he be assigned to the (now First Officer) who was in command of the airplane in the Caribbean, where it was apparently considered a waste of time to actually use the entire length of the runway for takeoff.
Perhaps in this way the BA operation can actually be improved.:ooh:

A measured reply from 411A!

Well done, Captain, really pleased with the welcome turn of events and that you are back flying again. Looking forward to seeing you above Cork in the summer mornings again.

I concur with the above post and wish Pete all the best for the future with B.A.

Common sense and natural justice. I'm delighted for him:ok::ok:

I'm sure that I can speak for 99.9% of SLF. We'll fly with you ANY TIME Capt Burkhill!!!. Best wishes for the future.

All the best, I'm going to buy the book to show support. We all need a little help at times.

D and F :8

Good Luck Peter, and it's about bloody time BA did the right thing.

Peter is a top bloke. I am proud to call him a friend. We only met after his last flight for BA and I am delighted that every one has seen sense and he is going back. Now lets all draw a line under it. All rules have exceptions, and he is exceptional.

If he was American he would be celebrated as a Hero. Lets leave it as that.

This is fantastic news - for both Peter and for BA. It is surprising that he was not taken by other airlines (like EK, QR or EY) but it is their loss.

BA did the right thing.

This is an exceptional case, and the outcome is quite right and just. It took just 21 minutes for post #2 in the thread to raise the question of the seniority list. Those whingers banging on about seniority come across as being extremely selfish individuals, perhaps better suited to being clock-watching bank clerks than thinking, professional pilots.

Captain Burkhill has won his spurs. You 'List Watchers' should just hope that you never have to prove yourselves in such a testing manner!

What brilliant news! No question that it's the right thing to do. Well done to the BALPA reps and all concerned. I just ordered the book too. Shame on the whisperers.:ok: