Heathrow pilot caught drunk at 9am about to fly to America is spared jail


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx was three times over the alcohol limit when he prepared to take off for San Francisco

A pilot who was three times over the alcohol limit in the cockpit of a Boeing 747 at Heathrow was spared jail yesterday after pleas from his bosses.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, 44, was given a suspended sentence which means he could be able to resume flying after therapy.
The American father of two was acting as First Officer when he was arrested on the flight deck of a United Airlines plane preparing to take off for San Francisco.
Police, called in by worried ground staff, breathalysed him and he was led off Flight 955 in front of stunned passengers.
Blood results revealed that he had 60mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood.
The legal limit for pilots who are about to fly a commercial plane is 20mg - the UK drink-driving limit is 80mg.
The flight was delayed for nearly three hours as United Airlines searched for another pilot.
At Isleworth Crown Court yesterday Judge Sam Katkhuda told xxxxxxxx his decision to drink before boarding the plane at 9am on October 19 last year had threatened the safety of all on board.
Imposing a six-month suspended sentence, he said: 'I'm surprised your captain did not notice you had consumed so much [alcohol] because when you passed through security checks it was noticed.
'One just cannot imagine how a person of your ability would get himself into this position. Certainly to be three times over the limit would have impaired your judgment. However successful you think you may be, alcohol has a negative effect on pilots.'



xxxxxx's barrister Neil Fitzgibbon said he had been 'more dehydrated than normal' and had a shorter period between flights than he was used to.
He had drunk only a modest amount and had not realised he was over the limit.
Two managing directors from United Airlines told the judge about the 'exemplary character and behaviour' of the former U.S. Air Force major.
The court heard he might be eligible to fly for the airline again in a year if he passed a range of medical and psychological tests. This would not have been the case if he had been jailed.
Captain Curtis Hughes told the court xxxxxxxxxx was currently suspended but had undergone an 'aggressive' programme of treatment.
He said: 'In my opinion he is an outstanding citizen and a consummate professional as an airline pilot.
'We believe that with the right kind of supervision and programme he will continue to be a valuable asset.'
xxxxxxxx, who lives in Hawaii, was also supported by a host of character references from colleagues. They described him as an 'expert pilot' whose skills could be called upon in any situation.
The final decision on the return of his wings will rest with the Federal Aviation Administration.
The pilot had admitted performing an aviation function with alcohol over the prescribed limit at a magistrates' court hearing on January 16.
But the JPs considered his offence so serious that they sent him to the crown court for sentencing

Cue 10+ pages of pointless debate on alcohol + flying :ugh:

Old Lizzy, you're and idiot. The UK drink driving limit means you can drink OVER A PINT OF BEER and go immediately driving. Do you really think this is acceptable for airline pilots?

Pilots know the rules - its their responsability to ensure they stick to them. Easiest way is to not have any alcohol within 24 hours of flying.

I am sure that the limit is there for a reason, and I would hope that it is lower than for driving a car - I am sure that there is a lot more decision making within a very short space of time should something go pear shaped in an aircraft than in a car!

Blessed are the self-righteous
 

Yes I probably am an idiot and I amuse myself by smiling like the village idiot at people and keep them guessing.

I am not advocating anyone drinking and flying at all; try to keep up. I am just aghast at the potential penalties for the new laws. Go to jail in a plane but not even get a ticket in a car? Pointless and likely to not cure the problem, just drive it further underground. When you have proactive management and rehab programs, then you can start to address the problem of substance abuse. I am very pleased to see this man's airline go to bat for him, turning out in force and making great pitches to let the courts know that they have intervened and can help this guy a whole lot more in house rather than in jail. Unlike the Virgin pilot at Washington a few Xmas's back, when his unenlightened boss Sir Dick, dropped him (fired and forgotten) like a hot potato - Branson can't handle anything other than great publicity. Two lives threatened, one career saved, and hopefully a family unit kept intact. I like the UA approach for sure. I wish I worked for someone like that.

I don't know what the US limits and could care less. I live on a little island and like being the local idiot. :p Panhandling is a great income supplement.....just need to wear a trash bag and borrow your neighbour's cute little dog....

Redemption and tolerance are good qualities - you should try experimenting with them sometime.

Maybe it's time to change the limit for driving a car?

I recently had a party at home, the following morning i checked my alcohol level. 70 mg. I was so dizzy I didn't belong anywhere near a car, let alone an aircraft.

We know the rules, and we know the consequences of violating them. You will never see me rally behing a colleague caught (proven) above the limit.

Period!

I like a drink as much as the next pilot - but in this industry we have extra responsibilities over and above an office worker.

The definition of "an alcohol problem" is simply if your drinking begins to interfere with:

1. Your family relationships
2. your helath
3. your employment

If you are on a short nightstop, and you choose that drink over your job responsibilities, you have an alcohol problem. It doesn't matter if it's "only a small one", or "I'll have less than a driver's limit" - the only hard bit is admitting it to yourself ... hmmm Old Lizzy ??

So he has had enough drink for others to notice
Enough alcohol in his blood that testing has shown DOES affect decision making and reaction times
And he tries to fly a plane with hundreds of passengers

And you are complaining that a sentence he did not get given would have been too harsh?

I don't know what you are complaining about, I think he was bloody lucky TBH

Sorry guys. He was over the limit at 9AM??? There is no excuse, no mitigating circumstance, no matter how highly others regard him.
12 hours bottle to throttle - another little maxim drummed into me when I was learning to fly. Sure we had a pint or three in the clubhouse after flying ceased for the day. But if I was flying again early in the morning then the 12 hour rule was sacrosanct and still is 30 years later.
And I'm only a humble little PPL.

The limit is idiotic - it's far too high, not low. He should be suspended from his job until he has had sufficient therapy to ensure as far as possible that he has recognised his alcohol problem and it is under good control. As a nurse I have seen far too much of the consequences of excessive drinking. If the USA limits for pilots are higher than those in the UK you will never find me flying with a USA airline, it just won't be worth the risk and I shall also warn my friends of this situation.I should say it is the USA which needs to "get real" as you put it.He's not what I would call an enlightened CP if he thinks it is fine to drink and fly. A long spell in an alcohol-free country might do both of them some good.

I certainly do not condone flying with any amount of alcohol in your system but I assume that he was operating an American registered aircraft.

Do the UK or American Regulations apply in respect of alcohol levels, if in fact there is a difference?

DX Wombat
 

Ummm... there is no such place as an 'alcohol free country'. KSA is one of the worst offenders.:sad:

DX Wombat
 

bus driver
 

hi lizzy..

so what is the blood alcohol limit to drive a bus (loaded with passengers) in the UK? Without knowing the reg I guess it is the same as for flying an aircraft ??


rgds
welle

Biggles - it doesn't matter where your aircraft is registered, you still have to operate to local regulations too wherever you may be..

Thanks White Knight for clarifying that for me.

There by the grace of Icarus go I
 

Good luck to this guy. He'll have learned from this experience. Personally I'd rather fly with an experienced ex USAF major than some of the ninnies that grace this forum at times.:ok:. His company seem to be a sensible and decent crowd.

I seem to rmember reading an article many years ago in some publication or other, about a military fast jet pilot who took part in a simulator experiment to prove (or disprove) that alcahol and flying don't mix.

Off he flew in his simulated fast jet and did the planned sortie. Somewhere along the line, sadistic sim instructor throws him a curved ball which he handles in an exemplary manner. OK, end of sortie.

Out of cockpit and gets wrapped around a half of bitter or something similar.
Wait half an hour and leap back into the air. Somewhere along this sortie, sim sadist throws exactly the same emergency at him, with a crash and burn result.

No argument really. Alcahol and flying do not mix and anyone who does it as a statistic waiting to happen.

Doc C

Alcohol
 

Take it or leave it? Any amount of alcohol in an aircrew bloodstream is disqualifying. My Opinion, I've worked in the field. There is such a potential for danger and impairment. A low level means what? Generally a higher level precedent? A hungover pilot is more dangerous than a drunk one, for the most part. If anyone smells alcohol on a professional, he/she isn't.

AF

In Italy the limit is 50 mg per 100 ml, proposal tabled to reduce it to 20 mg.
Exactly the same of a pilot.

When I was learning to fly many moons ago it was hammered into us "8 hours bottle to throttle", regardless of the legal limit (and including).

Recently I have been working in the mines and some large companys now breathalize every shift, with a 0% level being mandatory., if not big trouble.

It appears from a liability point of veiw they can not be certain that your judgement is not impaired, even with the slightest amount of booze.

Now we all know thats cr#$ but thats the way it is.

Well accoridng to this link, the US limit is 0.4 so he would have been over that at 0.6 as well. And as you can see, the people at that link should know ;)

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/1...ohol-klas.html

Many people can still appear and act as "drunk" when under the set amount to drive a motor vehicle.

It all depends on body size and mass.

Fact is.

60mg, 20 under the UK driving law.

Is poor. Very poor.

Clearly the skill set to fly a 747, is of a much greater scale then a car.

Get real.

He was very unprofessional and it's a shame, someone of such personal responsibility would allow him self into this situration. And infact, risk the saftey of hes fellow crew members and passengers.

Well spotted ground staff.

IIRC the Flight Safety Foundation did some studies on alcohol and flying and how it affects the performance of pilots in the cockpit.
Depending on the situation they said the reduced performance levels could linger on for up to 48 hrs after the drinking had stopped.
The age old rule of 12 hrs between the bottle and throttles is really a minimum to go by and perhaps it should be revised upwards (perhaps 24 hrs).
The UK does not need to be told by an American citizen what is right or wrong with their rules... It's very arrogant on his part. The UK and many other European countries have similar alcohol limits and it is up to foreign crews regardless of aircraft registry to respect those limits or else face the music.
I am pro setting limits like in the UK which puts hard numbers down in the books as law to be followed. I'm sure the USA as similar rules/regs but most lilkely are a bit less restrictive then the UK's numbers.
For the record I'm not against a company and its CP trying to defend its pilot under certain conditions especially if they can enter him in an alcoholic recovery program.

In some states, India being one, the limit is ZERO, nada, Zip, nothing.
Pilots seem able to function and fly quite adequately whilst adhering to such limits. You don't have to drink just because you are a pilot!
The limit in UK is far too high.

Old Lizzy. Your words were "idiotically low UK alcohol law "

Can you name in which countries he would NOT have failed the level for pilots?

May be the poor chap just fell victim to the fact that english beer is a bit stronger than the american equivalent?:eek:

However, quite ok to be awake for an obscene period of time and land a 747 with 400 people - all the work done in that field has been ignored !

Remember the guy who went to jail for crashing a car and trailer onto a railway early in the morning (having fallen asleep at the wheel) because they proved he hadn't been to sleep that night......

With all the liabilities stalking the average pilot and the police beating the rescue crews to an accident I will nver allow my kids to get into this profession.... maybe into banking which carries no responsibilites

In a car your responsile for very few people.

In a aircraft you could be responsible for hundreds.

A aircraft is a helluva lot more complicated then a car.

What a stupid person you really are.

Old Lizzy!

You and people like you that cannot accept rules that are clear and well known have no place anywhere near an aircraft (or in fact Oxygen).

So you think that it is ok to be over the limit to fly, because you don't agree with the limit in place. Do you also not respect the drink drive limit?

Well please let me know where and when you fly(or drive) and i will avoid the area, as it is STUPID FOOLS like you that kill people. Trust me i know as i had a very good friend killed by some w****r that was drunk.

:mad:

Michael
 

What are you trying to say?

Experienced ex USAF majors are better at flying under the influence? Or are they more experienced in flying under the influence?
Taking a stand against flying and drinking makes me a worse pilot?

What?

What Is In Fact Zero?!?
 

OK guys, lets move the discussion one step further for all our (pilots!) benefit. Those of us who were in the industry 20 years ago, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, know very well how it was then - before the hype that eroded our profession, by anyone who desires so, was introduced.

I am not advocating drinking before flying - any amount - and diligently adhere to 12 hours rule, which is sensible and responsible.

I am also very happy that concerned pilot had the management able to look beyond the hype - and see big picture. Very rare situation these days.

I fly in a part of the world where limit is ZERO ZERO. But, how reliable are breathalyzer tests?
Say, before going for a flight, you use a mouthwash - and if You were not careful enough to choose one WITHOUT alcohol, that breathalyzer is going to read something -0,00000001 - technically speaking, you are over the limit - big trouble. Many other products, or food (especially fermenting food, in combination with fruits) will give you a "failed" result.

As far as I am concerned, I would opt not to blow the tube - take my blood sample if you want facts! But the problem is - You refuse the breathalyzer, they take it as over the limit.
And You are done. Licence, job, GONE. As here, we have NO Pilot Union to help you, management - no-one to stand up & say a good word.

Do You call that a sensible approach?:rolleyes:

And also, coupled with the crizis + corporate greed - ever increasing duty time, a lot of minimum rest periods - let's face it - our lives have changed dramatically, and I think it is ridiculous that I have to wait, say, 5 days to be able to take my ONE beer, or a glass of wine, along with my dinner:ugh:!!!

Bottom-line: Some - minimum - limit has to stay, say, 0.2 promille - (as we had it here also, only few years ago) to make it workable. Management thinks, under public pressure, they will make it a "safer" environment if they impose more restrictions:=

He was over the limit, so he broke the law in the UK. Ignorance of the law is no excuse in the UK, I would expect that would also be the case in most (if not all) countries outside the UK too,

Legal limit for driving a bus is 80mg/100ml breath. That said, If I'm driving a motor vehicle I don't drink alcohol at all. 0 mg/100ml is the safest way. I remember my first driving lesson when the instructor said to start the car and just sit there holding the steering wheel. He then asked me what I had in my hands, to which I replied "the steering wheel". "No!" he said, "You're now holding a lethal weapon that can kill you and others!" When I thought about it, I realised he was right.

The legal limit is 0.2 promille because 0.0 is impossible.

The human body makes its own alcohol (by digesting food)

Brown bread/fruits/sugar/water is all that is needed.

Also, being a diabetic for example will help you over the limit.

I cannot believe the original post (other than the factual content which I knew about) and wonder if it's a jerk on the wind up. If so, it's success; I am actually quite wound up.

I am no big drinker, but if I drink a pint (60mg), I am aware of it, and that says it all.

In my humble opinion, there is no excuse for abusing the huge trust vested in you from both your employers and the public. If you can't respond properly to that trust then go push a pen, not a throttle.

It is also not only the pax on his flight at risk; analyse the risk profile of commercial flying and the risks on the ground, especially in densely trafficed airports, are equal to if not greater than those in the air. (don't get me wound up on taxi-ing speeds either!!)

The bottom line is if you judgement/reaction is impaired by even 0.05% then you should not do it, as, by definition, you are yourself increasing the risks.

Our industry spend millions tinkicking incidents and events. The same millions are spent on trying to control everything we can control, and offering proceedures and checklists to obviate risk; so is it not reasonable to assume self control should be a given?

Yes I admit by some of the standards on Pprune, there is moisture behind my lugholes, and I'm sure a few old hands might respond less than favourably to my opinion. If so, fair enough, but I believe in what I have written and those are the standards I abide by. No alcohol 48 hrs beforehand for me.

As for this:

Would the families of any potential victims been prepared to experiment with the same redemption and tolerance?

Old Lizzy a village idiot? I think not. Idiot of global proportions; yes. ****head on the wind up; without question.

Rant over.

That's it, I am going to the pub.
(and I stick to the 12 hour rule).

If flying an aircraft whilst under the UK DUI limits is acceptable to Lizzy, I would love to hear his views on the London Underground ZERO limit for anyone, not only LU personnel, working on their "property". So even a humble cleaner would be fired instantly with the slightest amount of alcohol on his breath, same as a train driver. (I know 0.0 is impossible, as some diabetics create alcohol in their bodies but most people don't, but if there is no medical reason for 0.1mg in the system then you are out)


But 60mg at 9am? If he had a few the night before (likely, going by the look of things) then he had quite a few for it still to be noticeable, or he had a swifty at some point before going near the aircraft. I don't know what is actually worse, being on the razz the night before or having a quick beer before work. The second one would definitely indicate an alcohol problem, because nobody should realistically need a drink at, what, 6-7-8am allowing for time to get through everything and get to the gate?


And, no, I have NEVER worked or driven under the influence, not even the morning after. That was drilled into me by someone who had the "joys" of cutting people out of cars after they drove drunk, or thought they could, as well as the joys of having 240vac go up your arm when you are sober. Any alcohol does increase the risks, no matter what your profession is.

Is it? Most UK beers are 5%abv or lower, and I certainly do remember getting 5%abv or higher in the USA.

Now, if he was on the stuff they make here, I would go along with your statement.

C is not a sharp thing. Nor is drinking.
 

ManaAdaSystem

Chill man, chill. Drinking has never made anyone do anything better and pilots shouldn't drink within 48 hrs of duty time, period. This chap has made a mistake (and is now paying for it). I think a sober USAF major is likely to be a good pilot and one that we might learn from (I certainly can). I believe that UA have shown their belief in this guy and I am sure that he will recover himself and pay them back handsomely with years more good, safe flying. Far better to help a good man off the ground and back into the air than kick him when he's down.

'In Italy the limit is 50 mg per 100 ml, proposal tabled to reduce it to 20 mg.
Exactly the same of a pilot.'

Ditto in Spain were they have random, frequent, and strict breathylyser checks.
I have been stopped on two occasions. You get out of your car, into the back of the analysis van, get your result, and if ok, your'e away.
You don't have to make any mistake, crash or come to the attention of the police to qualify. I've even seen a bus driver have to do this test.
Drinking within 12 hours and flying an aircraft :=
This guy was lucky, very lucky, and I tend to wonder if the same light sentence would have been handed out to a UK registered pilot!