CNN Reports FEDEX crash in Tokyo
 

The report was breaking news with no specifics.

Anyone have anything more?

Ed

BBC -

A cargo plane has crash-landed and burst into flames near Tokyo, Japanese media report.
They say the accident happened at the main Narita international airport on Monday morning local time. There was no immediate information about any casualties on board the Federal Express Corp plane.

I can see the crash site out of my hotel room and there is footage on local TV. The aircraft appears to be totally destroyed.

Video footage shows the aircraft landing hard then bouncing. Next impact is on the nose wheel, bouncing again and then rolling left to land upside down off to the left of RW34L. There was an immediate fire.


EDIT : FedEx MD11

RJAA 222238Z 30019G32KT 9999 FEW030 12/M03 Q1002 WS R34R RMK 1CU030 A2959

Just watching footage of the crash now. Looks like it was pear-shaped at the touchdown, high winds (21.5 m/s) reported in the area at the time.

The plane is inverted and burning off the runway.

NARITA —

A cargo aircraft crash landed due to strong winds at around 6:50 a.m. Monday morning at Narita International Airport, east of Tokyo, and burst into flames, Chiba prefectural police said.

Japan Times

Kyodo News - Story
Claim it is a MD-11.

"The crashed plane, an MD-11, was FedEx Flight 80 from Guangzhou, China"

An MD-11 crashing "because of strong winds" and ending up inverted. Like at HKG?

And it's not the first time for FedEx:
The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board is to .... decide whether pilot error or an aircraft design or operations flaw led to the July 1997 crash in which a Federal Express MD-11 freighter ended up on its back and burning (Newark).

Fingers crossed for the crew

ouch - very shocking footage... :(

for the uninformed (i.e. me) what can cause such a violent barel roll at landing ?! I'm surprised that there is so much lift at what should be landing speed...

Hard to see initiqal touchdown, but it doesn't appear bad. Nose lowered quite violently then strong nosewheel bounce and pitch up and aeroplane became airborne again, rising about 30'. The second touchdown was very hard on the nose leg, and in the crash landing after the bounce, the left gear collapsed and massive fire broke out as left engine appears to have punctured fuel tanks and left wing broke outboard of engine, and video shows plane rolling over to left onto its back in major conflagration. It seems to be a repeating pattern with this type.

I wonder if the plane was very lightly loaded? It seems extraordinary behaviour, however there are reports of squall-type gusty winds at the time which could cause inadvertent return to the air before it was properly settled. The pitch down after the bounce was incredible. A heavily loaded MD11 would have collapsed the noseleg on the second touchdown.

A bounced landing must be recovered from first before allowing a big jet to settle back. Essential to get power on instantly and stop speed falling and hold attitude and stay airborne to collect your wits before deciding either go around or fly it back on. But the landing causes big speed loss and you are airborne too slow with the nose falling away from you into a fatal dive we see. Very unfortunate.

Both pilots now confirmed dead.


.

Edit: Conflicting report now of one "rescued" person being transported to hospital.

Too small stabilizer. Reduced from DC10 dimensions for fuel burn reasons.

The result have been seen more than once.

BBC link:

BBC NEWS | World | Asia-Pacific | Cargo plane crash lands in Japan

It's always a good idea to check where the stab is before landing a MD. Running out of elevator in the flare can be a nasty surprise. Not saying this is what happened here, just a general comment.

The fire could be because the engine and/or the MLG strut punctured the wing.

It's just frightening to see how fast something like this can happen.:sad:

MD-11 yep seen this before
 

Mandarin Airlines at CLK (HKIA) 22 Aug 1999.

Interesting reading:

NTSB Accident Report Fedex 14 Newark

i landed here (rw 16R) last night at 6.45pm and here's the wind like for me.

base leg, 2800 ft : 210/58kt
finals 1000ft : 190/27 gust to 33
at minimums : xwind 12kt still gusting

had a very firm touchdown, we both dont care what pax say, even got one of MD aboard!

But i guess wind was stronger this morning. my heart goes to the Crew

Fedex lost an MD11 in a heavy landing at Newark in July 97. This is their third loss of a MD11.

It is interesting the alleged loss of elevator authority in the MD11. The DC10 had a massive tailplane, the MD11 seems smaller. A lot of elevator authority is needed in a bounce like this to stop the nose falling away as you are suddenly 20 kts slower than trim speed, and suddenly airborne again in a big surprise. The key to this is: were they trying to fly it down or hold it off? If trying to hold it off and the nose drops like that, then this plane has a fundamental elevator control design deficit. The flight recorder will be the key with elevator demand during the bounce. Bounce landing training seems to be lacking these days. Simulators should have a 'bounce' button where whatever your landing is like, it will throw you airborne again to sort it out. It could possibly have helped here.

With winds like this it always gets tricky in NRT. Just go for a run around the airport and you will notice that the winds come from every direction. There was also a winshear warning on the metar for 34R, the short runway.

Picture not related to this accident
 

http://joshuadavis.files.wordpress.c...adklmmd-11.jpg

Just to illustrate the typical stabilizer angle during approach.

That was quick!
 

OK maybe partly a point techman, but aren't you oversimplifying a bit?

How about the strength of the landing gear?
How about the (very) swept wing design?
How about the high approach speeds?
Pilot input? (can't say I haven't ever been tempted to push the nose down after a bouncy landing)
How serious was this wx really?

I find rainboe's post a bit smarter, that's all.

Hi Iceman, is the Airport operational again, I am due to fly there tonight ?

Newark animation..

NTSB - Runway Incursion

On initial viewing, very similar. Bounce. Nose down. Main gear failure and breakup.

FedEx has had way too many widebody hull losses in recent years but sadly, if confirmed, I believe this would be the first crew loss on the mainline. The carnage on the feeders has been discussed here in the past.

A sad day in NRT for us all.:(

It appears the original report I heard on TV has now been confirmed.


Japan Times

Sure, I left out the training aspect.

All the points you mentioned should have been part of the design considerations. Yet, what happened here is, sadly, not a first.

That is a truely shocking video, can't say I've ever seen anything like that before. It actually looks to me like the left gear fails on the first bounce, the plane then gets airbourne again before coming back down and the left of the plane digging in having watched it a couple of times in Slo-mo.

2 crashes in the space of a few hours? jeeez.

Anymore news on the crew? As said above, I have seen reports of all lives lost and another saying at least 1 survivor.

This video shows the initial touchdown....very hard bounce!

News Video - 23-Mar-2009

Thanks, interesting reading the 27 point Conclusions

Shocking stuff.... is that a jet fuel storage area in the background? Bit hard to tell, but is that a long way off from where the jet ended up?

Considering 3 out of 3, what's the significance of the right wing down involvement vs the left wing. Is it something to do with the control function:confused:

If I'm wrong about 3 out of 3 I'll edit my post to reflect

names Released
 

Japanese press confirms both dead and have just released the names. Don't know if it is appropriate here:

Kevin Kyle Mosely (54) (US)
Anthony Stefan Pinot (49) (US)
Names were written in Japanese so spelling will not be accurate


will be a gathering at JLC this evening.


NHK WORLD English

BA61
 

For BA61, according to the Narita website, flights are still arriving and departing on schedule. There are no notices on the site to the effect that passengers should call in etc. So it appears that NRT is still operating at or close to normal.

seems nose gear collapsed during first touch down. as response pilot instinctively pulls full aft elevator to keep the nose up, overcorrecting in its way.

I really don't think it's appropriate to be asking (or answering) questions about the operational status of the airport after such a tragic accident. What say we try to have some consideration for the victims here folks?

Dani: More interesting reading:

NTSB Accident Report Fedex 647 Memphis

JO

No one questions the trageic and horrific accident. But seriously asking what the status of the airport is in no way disrespectful of what has occurred.

Runway A (34L) is still closed. Only the shorter Runway B open.

I flew this airplane for a number of years and it can be a real handful to land. There is more 'info' on landing technique than on any other aircraft I've ever flown. If you don't get it exactly right the nose wants to come down rather violently, causing a natural tendency to overcontrol and the nose then pitches up severely. (Part of it is due to where the CG is in relation to the main gear) Add strong gusty crosswinds and this beast can put your heart in your mouth. It looks like there was an attempt to recover from that first overreaction and then the nose hits hard-- after that all bets are off. I noticed that the nosegear had not sheared off from 1 of the pix, so that 'bounce/pitchover' might have happened here at the wrong time.

More thrust, less elevator with a bounced landing
 

Rainboe - you are partially correct.

The elevator authority on touchdown on the MD11 is certainly adequate to meet this type of problem (bounced landing). The contributing factors for this type of catastrophic result are: generally the throttles have been commanded closed (function of Auto Throttle System (ATS)), and the wing is a "critical" wing in such that there is little to no "ground effect" produced, and a tendency to pitch down and then immediately pitch up, which will drive the nose gear and then main gear back to the runway, with a possible >3g force. At the same time, speed/lift is rapidly decaying, which will result in less control surface authority.

A typical reaction to a bounced landing is a tendency to pitch down to "settle" the airplane, which with the MD11 is a no-no. I am aware of at least one carrier that regularly practices bounced landings in its simulator and on good authority of a couple of its drivers, their policy in relation to a bounced landing, is to go-around - GA thrust, pitch attitude 10 degrees NU, and hold that attitude until 50 ft RA (apparently to negate a tail strike).

A sad day indeed, but the result of the investigation will probably discover poor, if any, bounced landing technique being applied in this accident, exacerbated by gusty conditions.