747 Crash @ Lagos
 

Africa claims another victim. The crew are all fine, but the aircraft is totalled.

When? Which airline? No info on CNN.com...

Dogma

Can you be a bit more specific? Not a good subject to be vague about.

Checked Reuters, BBC Online and Google. Nothing....
WIHIH??

I got this on Airliners.net:

Hydro Air Cargo B742F ZS-OOS crashed in Nigeria (Lagos) yesterday after apparently being cleared by ATC to land on an unserviceable runway.

The gear apparently struck an object on the runway and was ripped off. This caused the one side to drop resulting in the fuselage rolling over and ripping off either one or both wings.

The condition of the crew is unknown, and all that is confirmed is that the aircraft is written off. All info is still very hazy and nothing will be confirmed until the accident investigators have completed their inspection of the aircraft.

(For additional info, the aircraft was formerly 4X-AXD of EL AL, delivered as a 747-258 Combi).

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I suppose the reason it wasn't on CNN etc. was that there were no fatalities?

From what i hear, safety at Lagos is at a ridiculous level.
Both airfield and ATC have gotten some ( a lot ) of flack earlier.
Was it only a matter of time?

Can this be moved to the Africa Forum please ..its running there as well.
4g

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=110516

hobie ..........

Hydro ! were they flying to BRU ?:8

Sounds bad! I hope everyones OK and that there is an in depth investigation! Was it in daylight or darkness. If the runway was not serviceable shouldn't the plane have diverted?

Thanks Dave 14 :yuk:

Yes, Hydro Air were regulars into BRU and OST. Nigeria or not, I don't believe ATC would knowingly clear an a/c to land on an unserviceable runway. I imagine there's a bit more to this than we know at present.

Operated out of LOS earlier last week. Just before taxy were informed by another a/c taxying ahead of us that a landing a/c had reported a large pothole on the RHS of R/W 19R. Not a word from ATC. Both ourselves and other a/c decided take off on 19L would be the sensible option. Uneventful departures. Informed inbound Virgin of problem at LOS and presumably no problems there. Last we heard LOS supposed to be repairing R/W. Interesting place to operate in/out of!!!

Nothing wrong with ATC in lagos. Except they cant speak english to well chalk this one up to the french.

Nice one BT. :ok:

That only took a week this time.

Ever worked in Africa Avman?
Thought not.

Wow guys, you do have double standards about second-guessing the reason for an aircraft accident before the facts are known. Why are you not speculating that it was a cock-up by a cowboy crew flying for a cowboy operator?

Double standards? Not at all. What about yourself? I'm simply reacting to your statement that ATC couldn't be at fault, now you go blaming the crew.

Who knows the cause?

What I do know is that I've seen ATC in Lagos create more than one crash...with my very own eyes.

For instance, the Learjet with an engine out making an ILS on 19L. When he was 2 miles out ATC gave a Nigeria Airways B737 clearance to line up!
Which he duly did!!

The Learjet tried to go around, lost it, and pranged into the bush between the runways. Everyone got killed!

Lagos ATC wouldn't land you on a closed runway?
Don't ever bet your life on it.

Saw it with my own eyes at 0941Z 29 Nov on T/O from 19L (19R NOTAMed unavailable 1800-0600L), still gave us 19L for departure, soon saw why. B747 off 19R to east side, fully on the grass between runway and taxyway. Wings still attached, difficult to assess damage, looked likely to be few if any injuries.

19R had been unavailable for our landing at 0445Z 28 Nov, and had been for the previous day's rotation, so we were forewarned (despite lack of NOTAM at that stage). Don't know time of accident. Not a word about it from ATC.
:cool:

It's in the notams as having a very poor runway surface.

Shades of many years ago, except at Kano then.
Sinkhole on the runway...B707 found same.

Bad scene all 'round.

Not much changes in Nigeria...except the faces of the 'officials' in charge...:sad:

Yep, same old story. Its just you brothers at MK still keep it real! Total respect to you guys, the money you earn is not proportionate to the risks involved!
A difficult theatre of operations:ouch:

411A, don't remember what year that 707 shunt was, but by 1989 nothing had improved at Kano. Sh1t layover, too, even with a diverted Birdseed crew for company (the usual seasonal sandstorms in Lagos).

While we're at it, Lagos, Abuja and Port Harcourt are also less-than-perfect....

National TV was a hoot, though.:E


Hope this crew are okay.

I concur with all your comments re the Nigerian airworks. I've known it on and off since the 1950s.

No mention of a recent B742 event on Harro Ranter's excellent aviation safety web site.

it almost makes you think a call to your local Rep, before landing, with the request "take a run down the strip for us buddie and make sure its OK", might be a good idea !!!!


hobie ....


ps. now on ASN .......

http://aviation-safety.net/database/2003/031129-3.htm

I was reliably informed the crew was specifically cleared to land on that r/w, after they had queried its serviceability. They were well aware of wip but, I say again, they were positively cleared to land. What else must they do ?
Comments on cowboys are totally out of line and betray a vast ignorance of operations in Africa.
Thanks be to God no-one was sufficiently hurt to need admission to hospital in Nigeria.
Landing in Africa by night ? I don’t miss it a bit.

oTd

Probally a silly question but what was on the ATIS (what ATIS?), was the localiser operating and were the approach lights for 19R on. What was the wx?

Maxalt, The 732 was probably cleared to line up and take off as it would have otherwise acted as an obstacle (potential) to the incoming learjet. It was probably close to the runway on the taxiway and ATC saw it more fit to clear it away before the learjet touched.
BTW, the 742 is a hard one to touch and hold level on finals in non standard conditions. Can often depend on the gyration swing and all else.
Rgds.

Topman..... What utter S:mad:hite.

There is no justifying the total inadequacies of the Nigerians.

I can guarantee that there was no thought applied to the reasoning behind departing that aircraft ahead of the Lear.

Good point! (Damn beers!)

Dogma, With all due respect your sentence dtructure does not even make sense. :(

During my basic ATCO training, I once worked as "blipdriver" in radar simulator for a bunch of licenced ATCO's from Ghana on "radar-refresher" training. Class D airspace if I remember correctly.

They routinely cleared outbound traffic to the same or higher level as inbound traffic, both routing over the SAME VOR! Needless to say it got really close.....all the time. Their explenation to the Santaclaus-looking (HUGE white beard :D) swedish instructor was: "Allways clear Sky, they can see eachother" Cue non PC yelling bye Santa in the SIM room. :E

I am interested to see who was PIC and what the CVR and FDR have to say. For one has flown into Lagos a GA was not uncommon due to the occasions when local wild animals got inside the airport perimeter, and if my memory serves me correct an L1011 burst a tyre on takeoff there b4, and many other rumours I have heard. Having parked a 742 there myself, I may say that the runway surfacing is(at least was) amongst the poorest in the world. What I would deem as serious "holes" in the surface. Generally the further down the 3900M runway you get the better the surface becomes though.

Why are there not any photos of this incident yet?
Its been nearly a week and yet nothing in the media.
Anybody have a link to photos to verify the damage??

Some Info...
 

Here is some info on the Hydro crash.

Sorry guys, no cowboy crew on this one and not a cowboy operator either...

Hydro WAS cleared to land on 19R - three times. Each time the crew requested confirmation, as they actually had the NOTAM and yes, they actually read it.

A/C landed and ran through some trenches dug across the rwy, damaging the nose gear and LH wing gear. Lost hydraulics and departed the rwy to the left, digging in the LH gear and dragging the LH engines into he ground.

At this stage there is no confirmation of whether the a/c will be recovered, as there is no confirmation of the cost to recover and repair. Just looking at all the old wrecks standing around, it would probably be cheaper (definitely easier) to take the insurance than to repair and recover.

All on board are alive and well, although a bit shaken.

Nigerian officials have prohibited any photographers from taking photos, make sense doesn't it. Apparently the ATC is missing and will probably never be found again.

Oh, by the way the language in Nigeria and Ghana is some form of English (Nigerish in Nigeria and Ghanish in Ghana). Takes some time getting used to.

747crash in DNLL
 

Is there anyone who can post or give an URL where to find the original text of the notam send to advertise the works in progress on 19R ?
tks

posted 2nd December 2003 12:43
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Whats ATC standard in Nairobi? Is Jomo Kenyatta Airport well maintained such as:

Is there no Pot Holes on the taxiways?

Is the night lighting good at night?

Do you get sand blowing from Sudan which causes reduced vis?

Also do you get torrential rain on final in NBO?

Does anyobody know any threads they could kindly point me to to see Crash incidences in NBO.

Cheers

topman999, are you for real? Please explain how an aircraft holding at the holding point is an 'obstacle'? Because if you are right then just about every airport in the world has its approaches dangerously obstructed by obstacles on a daily basis.

I don't believe you've ever 'parked' a B742 anywhere near Lagos, except maybe in a Flight Sim or in your dreams.
If you had you'd know better.

I referred to just one incident...I said I'd seen many. Like the day the ATC radios failed for ten minutes. When they came back on air they'd completely lost the procedural picture (no radar ever worked there so nothing to fall back on). Instead of doing something logical, like directing aircraft into the hold and sorting them out there, the madman on the mike just issued everyone with whatever climb or descent clearance they requested.
We had two very near misses within 3 minutes of each other!

Nigeria is the pits and Lagos is the arse8ole of the aviation world. Don't try making pathetic excuses for them. I just thank Christ I got out alive.

Maxalt,
According to you ever aircraft landing in the skies today is on an emergency landing than ! My post read that it is probably not ideal to have an aircraft waiting on the side taxiway next to the runway where that learjet was landing. It was a good choice to clear the departing traffic....and yes I have flown into Lagos b4.On more than one occasion actually.

Eh?
This is a wind up.

Having castigated Dogma for his grammer you now post this gobbledygook?

Are you a Nigerian? Are you a Nigerian ATC'er perhaps?

It would explain everything.
:p

P.S. "It was a good choice to clear the departing traffic.."
Oh Yeah? Not if you were in the Lear I guess.:mad:

Maxalt - Why must you be so rude ? Perhaps you would have preferred if the 732 was cleared to line up and just hold on the runway. Iff the learjet was 2 miles out than there was no danger at all (hello !). Its common practice to get departing traffic while aircraft on 1 mile final. At 2 miles out the learjet was enough out to let the 732 leave. Safer all round and a good choice in my book.

Interesting points all around folks.
Just for the record, I have never flown into LOS - nor would I particularly relish the prospect. Just too many "bad luck" stories. Ever heard the phrase there's no smoke without any fire? Also, isn't this the airport (LOS) that has notices posted at virtually every international airport around the world warning passengers that it's security is not up to par? I wonder why such a notice needs to be posted for the general public. And I wonder if they know about the conditions of the runeays/taxiways/ATC etc.
Sounds like a heap of trouble.

Keep safe and don't believe what they tell you....