Hailstones
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To save other browsers time, the link refers to a report of an incident to an A321 penetrating a thunderstorm (ala SO242) and then landing with severe hail damage to the nose cone and windscreen.
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To save other browsers time in pressing your mouse button once, here's the story 
Passengers on a Manchester-bound holiday jet were subjected to a horrifying ordeal when their plane was punctured by hailstones in a freak lightning storm.
Hailstones the size of golf balls smashed into the aircraft, punching a hole the size of a football into the nosecone.
The drama happened as more than 200 passengers returned to the UK from a holiday in Cyprus.
The aircraft dived as it was buffeted by turbulence at 34,000 ft sending passengers sprawling into the aisles and leaving them in fear of their lives.
The drama on the bmi Airbus A321 happened as it cruised over Germany on its way back to Manchester from Cyprus.
Passengers only realised the full extent of the mid-air drama when they got off the plane when it landed at Manchester Airport.
Bruce Johnstone, 47, a photojournalist who, with his wife Janet, owns a series of radio stations in New Zealand, took pictures of the damaged plane after he got off.
He said: "It was like a hail of bullets and then a huge thump. Everyone was screaming and we are lucky to be alive. Everyone clapped and cheered when we landed."
Flight BD8412 got into trouble two-and-half hours into the four-and-half-hour trip from Larnaca in Cyprus.
A spokesman for Manchester Airport confirmed the plane had been damaged by a lightning strike and a hail-storm. He said air accident investigators had been informed.
Passengers on a Manchester-bound holiday jet were subjected to a horrifying ordeal when their plane was punctured by hailstones in a freak lightning storm.
Hailstones the size of golf balls smashed into the aircraft, punching a hole the size of a football into the nosecone.
The drama happened as more than 200 passengers returned to the UK from a holiday in Cyprus.
The aircraft dived as it was buffeted by turbulence at 34,000 ft sending passengers sprawling into the aisles and leaving them in fear of their lives.
The drama on the bmi Airbus A321 happened as it cruised over Germany on its way back to Manchester from Cyprus.
Passengers only realised the full extent of the mid-air drama when they got off the plane when it landed at Manchester Airport.
Bruce Johnstone, 47, a photojournalist who, with his wife Janet, owns a series of radio stations in New Zealand, took pictures of the damaged plane after he got off.
He said: "It was like a hail of bullets and then a huge thump. Everyone was screaming and we are lucky to be alive. Everyone clapped and cheered when we landed."
Flight BD8412 got into trouble two-and-half hours into the four-and-half-hour trip from Larnaca in Cyprus.
A spokesman for Manchester Airport confirmed the plane had been damaged by a lightning strike and a hail-storm. He said air accident investigators had been informed.
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If anbody needs a good example of hail damage to an aircraft if your passing through lyon have a look in the corner of the apron and you will see a very badly damaged/written off tri motor windscreens smashed and all over dents to boot!...The only thing you can think about this incident with the bus is the weather radar was knackered or not switched on...?
Must have been fairly scary for the flight deck crew too!
Must have been fairly scary for the flight deck crew too!
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If thats the damage to the Radome, I expect the engine,s are wrecked as well not to mention, wing leading edges, horizontal & vertical stabilizer. It would be nice to see somemore pics.
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certainly from the views shown by Sky News these guys got a real battering ......
BMI Buses? ....... how many do you want? ...... here's the fleet .....
http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/sect...ils.aspx?p=232
cheers ....
BMI Buses? ....... how many do you want? ...... here's the fleet .....
http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/sect...ils.aspx?p=232
cheers ....
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nitefiter,
couldn't agree more.
Some serious questions need asking as to why a captain would choose not to land at the nearest suitable airport having suffered serious and unquantifiable damage, but instead continues on cruising for another hour.
Perhaps questions need asking as to the safety culture or lack of it at Midland.
Let's not forget that it was one of their A321's that tailscraped on landing at Dublin, then had a presurrisation failure on the next departure, and continued unpressurised all the way back to LHR. That's when I stopped flying with them.
couldn't agree more.
Some serious questions need asking as to why a captain would choose not to land at the nearest suitable airport having suffered serious and unquantifiable damage, but instead continues on cruising for another hour.
Perhaps questions need asking as to the safety culture or lack of it at Midland.
Let's not forget that it was one of their A321's that tailscraped on landing at Dublin, then had a presurrisation failure on the next departure, and continued unpressurised all the way back to LHR. That's when I stopped flying with them.
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The question that has to be asked is why did the Captain fly in to the hailstones? That severity of weather would have shown up as purple on his weather radar. You never fly through such weather returns. To do so is dangerous, as this Captain has now found out!
As we know turbulence does not show up on weather radar, but hailstones are harder than rain and will give a very strong radar return.
As we know turbulence does not show up on weather radar, but hailstones are harder than rain and will give a very strong radar return.
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I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a nagging feeling that, actually hailstones themselves, being ice, may not show up on Wx radar.
I have no connection with Midland at all, but I do know that Wx radar is not quite the perfect tool that some are implying.
Should we wait for the facts perhaps??
I have no connection with Midland at all, but I do know that Wx radar is not quite the perfect tool that some are implying.
Should we wait for the facts perhaps??
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wx radar? the radar on bmi buses will show up hail.why didnt he divert? at the time the extent of the damage was not known or even suspected to be as bad as it is. and its bad.the a/c could be grouned for days yet.
all engine parameters also other systems appeared normal. and to answer the question about the safety culture with midland, safety is paramount, no question and as regards to the tail scrap your info is right however i would like to point out that Team FLS as they were did the T/R inspection in DUB. NOT midland personnel. bmi Baby only operates B737s. the air bus is from bmi (mainline as its called)effectively 2 separate airlines.ok chaps
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Without Prejudice
I will not comment on the specific incident as, like most of the foregoing posters, I have no reliable information on it. However, I should like to post a helpful observation based on experience and would add that I have never flown an Airbus, nor with a radar that can "detect turbulence."
Modern, computer-interpreted WX radar systems (X-band) push out less energy than the earlier ones - typically with the orange CRT screens and "iso-echo holes" (C-band) which I am sure are still around in great number. We have discussed this on PPRuNe previously and there is an excellent set of threads on Tech Log, under Useful Website References.
As Tandemrotor implies, ice does not show up too well on modern equipment which is designed to bounce off water. "Benign" water is intended to show up as green on my 75/767 kit. Yellow, red (and further colours of the rainbow in other fits) are used to indicate increasing densities of moisture. After two quite exciting encounters with green returns in the cruise, I realised that above (say) FL250 anything that was green must have been flung-up from below at great speed and had no right to be there. At FL390 it was surely out of place.
Since then, when cruising "above" an active area, I have used 4-down / 40nm and flown around the returns without further incident. Obviously, in active areas, and especially in the tropics, you are routinely faced with weather penetration during climb and descent, taking the "greenest" path you can find on your screen and previously ensuring that the cabin is secure.
In the cruise, treat green as potentially dangerous. Hope this helps someone, some time.
Modern, computer-interpreted WX radar systems (X-band) push out less energy than the earlier ones - typically with the orange CRT screens and "iso-echo holes" (C-band) which I am sure are still around in great number. We have discussed this on PPRuNe previously and there is an excellent set of threads on Tech Log, under Useful Website References.
As Tandemrotor implies, ice does not show up too well on modern equipment which is designed to bounce off water. "Benign" water is intended to show up as green on my 75/767 kit. Yellow, red (and further colours of the rainbow in other fits) are used to indicate increasing densities of moisture. After two quite exciting encounters with green returns in the cruise, I realised that above (say) FL250 anything that was green must have been flung-up from below at great speed and had no right to be there. At FL390 it was surely out of place.
Since then, when cruising "above" an active area, I have used 4-down / 40nm and flown around the returns without further incident. Obviously, in active areas, and especially in the tropics, you are routinely faced with weather penetration during climb and descent, taking the "greenest" path you can find on your screen and previously ensuring that the cabin is secure.
In the cruise, treat green as potentially dangerous. Hope this helps someone, some time.
A thought provoking incident.
As usual, in these minor incidents, we never hear the story told from the pilots or the airline. Unless the damage warrants an AAIB report the wider aviation community probably won't here the full details. The pilot will submit a safety report to the airline but we won't get to read it.
Of course, the media wheel out the guy from BALPA, a few extravert passengers and their own weather expert. None of these can give any clue to the operational situation the Captain was in.
Should he have diverted? You really have to know everything about the incident to challenge the decision. The aircraft was clearly flyable at cruise altitude. If a low speed handling check was required then home base would probably be the better option with less fuel in the tanks. One hopes that the Captain
was not worried about an adverse reaction by management to a diversion. If he was worried then the airline needs to re think its safety culture. His decision would have to be respected in any case.
Could the hail have been avoided? Freak weather phenomena are a hazard. Without seeing the met for the route and having a record of the radar returns it is not possible to judge either.
What would be helpful to the wider community is a national database of safety reports. I suggest some kind of system where you can see all the incidents pertaining to an aircraft type irrespective of airline. At present reports are in company and that diminishes general learning.
As usual, in these minor incidents, we never hear the story told from the pilots or the airline. Unless the damage warrants an AAIB report the wider aviation community probably won't here the full details. The pilot will submit a safety report to the airline but we won't get to read it.
Of course, the media wheel out the guy from BALPA, a few extravert passengers and their own weather expert. None of these can give any clue to the operational situation the Captain was in.
Should he have diverted? You really have to know everything about the incident to challenge the decision. The aircraft was clearly flyable at cruise altitude. If a low speed handling check was required then home base would probably be the better option with less fuel in the tanks. One hopes that the Captain
was not worried about an adverse reaction by management to a diversion. If he was worried then the airline needs to re think its safety culture. His decision would have to be respected in any case.
Could the hail have been avoided? Freak weather phenomena are a hazard. Without seeing the met for the route and having a record of the radar returns it is not possible to judge either.
What would be helpful to the wider community is a national database of safety reports. I suggest some kind of system where you can see all the incidents pertaining to an aircraft type irrespective of airline. At present reports are in company and that diminishes general learning.
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thanks for the tips...No one seems to know what exactly is the best procedure- every one has ther own ideas- I have had similar experineces with hail- it just doesn't show, luckily we could fly around it all and was very impressive to see it falling to the ground!......My technique is very simliar to yours Dr Syn...