American to lay off 2500 pilots
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B767300ER,
Actually I'm within the 2500 pilots that will be furloughed. But I couldn't in good faith vote for a TA that punished the pilot force for mistakes made by bad management.
About your qualifications, I'm sure you and your buddies are more qualified than myself. You see, I flew 20 years in the military (Air Force), the first half in C-130s and the last 7 years flying for the Vice-President in Air Force II (B-707). After retirement, I flew for a cargo airline for two years in a B747-400 until hired by American.
However, most of my flying experience was international to places like Russia, mainland China, South America and Africa to name a few spots.
I probably didn't have enough experience to fly at TWA. Now what exactly was your background????
You have a very good day.
Actually I'm within the 2500 pilots that will be furloughed. But I couldn't in good faith vote for a TA that punished the pilot force for mistakes made by bad management.
About your qualifications, I'm sure you and your buddies are more qualified than myself. You see, I flew 20 years in the military (Air Force), the first half in C-130s and the last 7 years flying for the Vice-President in Air Force II (B-707). After retirement, I flew for a cargo airline for two years in a B747-400 until hired by American.
However, most of my flying experience was international to places like Russia, mainland China, South America and Africa to name a few spots.
I probably didn't have enough experience to fly at TWA. Now what exactly was your background????
You have a very good day.
Join Date: May 1999
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Hey Lizzie
If you reckon you bunch are 22% worse off than you used to be, so much more my argument about how you lot have priced yourself outta your jobs!
Seems you and your management are both as guilty for your current woes. I rest my case, sorry.
Jack
If you reckon you bunch are 22% worse off than you used to be, so much more my argument about how you lot have priced yourself outta your jobs!
Seems you and your management are both as guilty for your current woes. I rest my case, sorry.
Jack
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Only for USA scheduled crews...
Jack The Lad,
Read again.
My comments regarding the $12,000/mo (etc) apply ONLY to 'scheduled' USA aircarriers.
Others apply to contract crews...a very big difference.
The marketplace will decide...and always has, make no mistake.
Those who think otherwise will be severely disappointed.
Read again.
My comments regarding the $12,000/mo (etc) apply ONLY to 'scheduled' USA aircarriers.
Others apply to contract crews...a very big difference.
The marketplace will decide...and always has, make no mistake.
Those who think otherwise will be severely disappointed.
If you reckon you bunch are 22% worse off than you used to be, so much more my argument about how you lot have priced yourself outta your jobs!
Jack,
I'll use lots of little words if you promise to read slowly.
1. That 22% is a very simple number. Salaries at AA haven't wildly risen out of control. An AA narrow body pilot back then received a salary that had 22% more purchasing power than the same narrow body pilot in 2003. Seems to me the "free market" has had an effect in reducing AA pilots salaries.
Seems you and your management are both as guilty for your current woes. I rest my case, sorry.
Last payraise for AA pilots was 8/2000. Over the last 10 years we have averaged near 1% annually. Any village idiot would notice that can't compete with something like a $2.6 Billion stock buyback.
"both as guilty"? Sure Jack. Your village is looking for you.
Jack,
I'll use lots of little words if you promise to read slowly.
1. That 22% is a very simple number. Salaries at AA haven't wildly risen out of control. An AA narrow body pilot back then received a salary that had 22% more purchasing power than the same narrow body pilot in 2003. Seems to me the "free market" has had an effect in reducing AA pilots salaries.
Seems you and your management are both as guilty for your current woes. I rest my case, sorry.
Last payraise for AA pilots was 8/2000. Over the last 10 years we have averaged near 1% annually. Any village idiot would notice that can't compete with something like a $2.6 Billion stock buyback.
"both as guilty"? Sure Jack. Your village is looking for you.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Air Farce?
Ah, B&W, you seem to find the need to qualify yourself. I hate to play a childish game, but here goes:
I have worked for many more airlines than you (6), been a military pilot also, flew corporate, flight instructed, sim instructed and I'm certain I have not only more total flying experience than your part-time, 20-hrs per month Herc or VIP 707 job, but thousands more jet hours as well. Think the B-747s the cat's meow, just cause you got a rating? I've got L-1011/DC-10/A-320/MD-80/DC-9, B-727/737/757/767 and military/corporate jets on my resume, too; Along with 4 jet type-ratings (all large transport category aircraft), I have more time in jets flying over the ocean than you have flying over land. Over a thousand oceanic crossings, and funny enough, experience flying to many of those garden spots you mentioned. I have flown into and out of every continent EXCEPT Antarctica, not to mention numerous global hot-spots.
About TWA, you may not have been qualified, my friend; we did oceanic navigation and international procedures the old-fashioned way---SAFELY. We did IRS/INS gross-error checks, FMS accuracy checks, position plots on more than just waypoints and other checks and cross-checks; flying to 4 continents (yes, even up to the time we were bought by that over-sized domestic airline) tends to give your pilots that kind of experience AND the wisdom not to ever be complacent.
AA, of course, has no accuracy checks, gross-error checks or other cross-checks before entering or while in MNPS airspace, nor do they do anything to verify they're on the proper track navigating to the next correct waypoint, except the required position reports at longitudenal waypoints. I also was amused to find out that your procedures included switching the navigation instruments to "true" from "magnetic" when entering MNPS. Why is that? Can't tell the difference between true heading and magnetic course when looking from your EHSI to your plotting chart? Never heard that "east is least..." phrase? These procedures are obviously designed for superior airmen like yourself, who obviously think highly of themselves and never make mistakes we normal humans make. I guess thats why AA is so 'revered' and well-respected in the airline industry as a 'leader'. But, the category you 'lead' in is'nt one other air carriers would care to challenge, mate.
Lastly, I'm sure you're one of those chaps that after he walks under those signs in AA crew rooms/mailrooms (or walks thru doors where the sign is posted) that claim "THROUGH THESE HALLS WALK THE GREATEST PILOTS IN THE WORLD" actually believes that to be the case!
You've certainly convinced me; I think you're the best!
I have worked for many more airlines than you (6), been a military pilot also, flew corporate, flight instructed, sim instructed and I'm certain I have not only more total flying experience than your part-time, 20-hrs per month Herc or VIP 707 job, but thousands more jet hours as well. Think the B-747s the cat's meow, just cause you got a rating? I've got L-1011/DC-10/A-320/MD-80/DC-9, B-727/737/757/767 and military/corporate jets on my resume, too; Along with 4 jet type-ratings (all large transport category aircraft), I have more time in jets flying over the ocean than you have flying over land. Over a thousand oceanic crossings, and funny enough, experience flying to many of those garden spots you mentioned. I have flown into and out of every continent EXCEPT Antarctica, not to mention numerous global hot-spots.
About TWA, you may not have been qualified, my friend; we did oceanic navigation and international procedures the old-fashioned way---SAFELY. We did IRS/INS gross-error checks, FMS accuracy checks, position plots on more than just waypoints and other checks and cross-checks; flying to 4 continents (yes, even up to the time we were bought by that over-sized domestic airline) tends to give your pilots that kind of experience AND the wisdom not to ever be complacent.
AA, of course, has no accuracy checks, gross-error checks or other cross-checks before entering or while in MNPS airspace, nor do they do anything to verify they're on the proper track navigating to the next correct waypoint, except the required position reports at longitudenal waypoints. I also was amused to find out that your procedures included switching the navigation instruments to "true" from "magnetic" when entering MNPS. Why is that? Can't tell the difference between true heading and magnetic course when looking from your EHSI to your plotting chart? Never heard that "east is least..." phrase? These procedures are obviously designed for superior airmen like yourself, who obviously think highly of themselves and never make mistakes we normal humans make. I guess thats why AA is so 'revered' and well-respected in the airline industry as a 'leader'. But, the category you 'lead' in is'nt one other air carriers would care to challenge, mate.
Lastly, I'm sure you're one of those chaps that after he walks under those signs in AA crew rooms/mailrooms (or walks thru doors where the sign is posted) that claim "THROUGH THESE HALLS WALK THE GREATEST PILOTS IN THE WORLD" actually believes that to be the case!
You've certainly convinced me; I think you're the best!
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B767300ER,
Sounds like you've had a hard time holding a job. I don't know of many hot shot aviators like yourself that would have chosen TWA that late in the ball game. Especially with American, United and Delta hiring at the time. Oh I forgot, your application probably couldn't make the cut for the interview.
About hours, let's face it...........there's not a lot to taking off and shooting a straight-in ILS. I bet you also ate a lot of crew meals on those long international flights sitting on your f*t a*s not doing anything.
Gross obesity probably explains the numerous jobs and the short military career. Did you get kicked out of there also??? You mentioned Antarctica, I've been there (Operation Deep Freeze). If you want to know about it, I'll fill you in junior.
Sounds like you've had a hard time holding a job. I don't know of many hot shot aviators like yourself that would have chosen TWA that late in the ball game. Especially with American, United and Delta hiring at the time. Oh I forgot, your application probably couldn't make the cut for the interview.
About hours, let's face it...........there's not a lot to taking off and shooting a straight-in ILS. I bet you also ate a lot of crew meals on those long international flights sitting on your f*t a*s not doing anything.
Gross obesity probably explains the numerous jobs and the short military career. Did you get kicked out of there also??? You mentioned Antarctica, I've been there (Operation Deep Freeze). If you want to know about it, I'll fill you in junior.
This thread is temporarily closed -- call it a "cooling off" period, if you like.
Update - 14 April -
After much consideration, it's obvious that this thread is unfortunately "too far gone" to be restarted as is. Therefore, this thread is permanently closed.
However, contributors should feel free to re-start a new thread on the same topic, as long as they, and other contributors, heed the following -
ANY personal insults (which, by definition, violate the terms of service to which all PPRuNe members have already agreed), will result in the closure of the thread, or the banning of the post writer, or any other punitive action deemed necessary by PPRuNe moderators.
Stick to the issues and you'll be fine.
Update - 14 April -
After much consideration, it's obvious that this thread is unfortunately "too far gone" to be restarted as is. Therefore, this thread is permanently closed.
However, contributors should feel free to re-start a new thread on the same topic, as long as they, and other contributors, heed the following -
ANY personal insults (which, by definition, violate the terms of service to which all PPRuNe members have already agreed), will result in the closure of the thread, or the banning of the post writer, or any other punitive action deemed necessary by PPRuNe moderators.
Stick to the issues and you'll be fine.
Last edited by McD; 14th Apr 2003 at 14:05.
