Air Canada crew rooms searched for "pilfering"
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Musthafa....
I cannot disagree with what you put but isn't the standard of proof in the industrial world the less onerous 'on the balance of probabilities' rather than the criminal standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt'? When evidence in the view of 'the ordinary man' points to guilt, then on the balance of probabilities it is guilt. Thus, if we're not in a criminal court then it's a fair case of 'gotcha' and the culprit must go..... game, set and match. But that doesn't apply to our little Aussie battler.
Pip Pip!!
I cannot disagree with what you put but isn't the standard of proof in the industrial world the less onerous 'on the balance of probabilities' rather than the criminal standard of 'beyond reasonable doubt'? When evidence in the view of 'the ordinary man' points to guilt, then on the balance of probabilities it is guilt. Thus, if we're not in a criminal court then it's a fair case of 'gotcha' and the culprit must go..... game, set and match. But that doesn't apply to our little Aussie battler.
Pip Pip!!
Just to recap - There is no excusing theft, but before I convict someone I must have proof. You know, that stuff that will stand up in court - not what you think, what you can prove
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Reggiespotter- what insulting comments:
<<Here we have a group (i.e., pilots) that is the best paid of all aviation professionals and whose allowances/per diems would quite often exceed the annual salaries of their colleagues on the ground wingeing because some of their number were sprung helping themselves to company stores. >>
I am a pilot. I accept the warnings have been loud and clear. I find any sort of theft objectionable. I think you will find very very few pilots would hazard their careers and try and nick something, so perhaps you would care to rephrase! What I would say is that a lot of pilfering goes on by the crew- I keep hearing anecdotal evidence from my colleagues who witness it with horror these days. But the vast majority goes on by those who service aeroplanes- cleaners/caterers etc. I have even pulled up at the aeroplane preflight in a car and seen cleaners raiding the newly loaded ovens and aircraft dry stores- crew supplies were often taken. That is why your sausage was so severely punished. It has to be stopped once and for all. Pilfering is disgusting.
Some 20 years ago, my father ran a small technical company. He purchased 12 sets of highly sensitive electrical measuring apparatus- some sort of Avos. They were aboout £1000 each apparently. Over time, they were all 'replaced' with war surplus stuff you could buy in markets for £30 by the staff at the time- people who one would think judged themselves ' true & honest', but pilfering from your employer was somehow 'OK'. There is no explanation or excuse, and sackings are the only answer until it gets through. But don't tar pilots like what you have!
<<Here we have a group (i.e., pilots) that is the best paid of all aviation professionals and whose allowances/per diems would quite often exceed the annual salaries of their colleagues on the ground wingeing because some of their number were sprung helping themselves to company stores. >>
I am a pilot. I accept the warnings have been loud and clear. I find any sort of theft objectionable. I think you will find very very few pilots would hazard their careers and try and nick something, so perhaps you would care to rephrase! What I would say is that a lot of pilfering goes on by the crew- I keep hearing anecdotal evidence from my colleagues who witness it with horror these days. But the vast majority goes on by those who service aeroplanes- cleaners/caterers etc. I have even pulled up at the aeroplane preflight in a car and seen cleaners raiding the newly loaded ovens and aircraft dry stores- crew supplies were often taken. That is why your sausage was so severely punished. It has to be stopped once and for all. Pilfering is disgusting.
Some 20 years ago, my father ran a small technical company. He purchased 12 sets of highly sensitive electrical measuring apparatus- some sort of Avos. They were aboout £1000 each apparently. Over time, they were all 'replaced' with war surplus stuff you could buy in markets for £30 by the staff at the time- people who one would think judged themselves ' true & honest', but pilfering from your employer was somehow 'OK'. There is no explanation or excuse, and sackings are the only answer until it gets through. But don't tar pilots like what you have!
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Notso Fantastic
You're absolutely right; pilots by the very nature of the profession are "risk managers". To steal off the aircraft is not worth the risk for pilots. Granted that some F/A's and ground personnel think differently, because they have less to lose or whatever.
Most of the folks on this thread have no idea what's it like to be on a L/O; it's one of those things that you have to experience yourself. Perhaps if they did they wouldn’t be so quick to rush to judgment...
You're absolutely right; pilots by the very nature of the profession are "risk managers". To steal off the aircraft is not worth the risk for pilots. Granted that some F/A's and ground personnel think differently, because they have less to lose or whatever.
Most of the folks on this thread have no idea what's it like to be on a L/O; it's one of those things that you have to experience yourself. Perhaps if they did they wouldn’t be so quick to rush to judgment...
On any trip the crew are allowed to drink any amount of water, soft drinks or juice. Many times on a ten hour sector I may choose to ask for a cola and a glass of ice or any other beverage (non alcoholic of course), what if I elect not to drink it at the time and place it in my flight bag, this is a drink that I'm entitled to and permited to have but decide to defer it til I reach the hotel. Does it make me a thief to take it off the flight with me ? or is it preferable to pour it down the loo. What about the crew meal you dont feel like eating at the time , but save for later, does that make you a thief? Perhaps the Air Canada people are looking at large scale theft and the selling of company stores, that I can understand, but not taking a Coke or a snack off for later consumption.
Eight Gun Fighter
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We're looking at theft and attempted auctions of a few high value rotables. We're also looking at pilfering. Spend a $ or Euro or GBP on a soft drink. The ice cube machine is down the corridor. And Free. Don't try to re-fill the mini-bars bottles of vodka and tequila with water.
It's a tough business. Honesty counts. Toblerone bars are nice but too expensive. Rooms are block booked by airlines.
It's a tough business. Honesty counts. Toblerone bars are nice but too expensive. Rooms are block booked by airlines.
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>>We're looking at theft and attempted auctions of a few high value rotables. We're also looking at pilfering. Spend a $ or Euro or GBP on a soft drink. The ice cube machine is down the corridor. And Free. Don't try to re-fill the mini-bars bottles of vodka and tequila with water. <<
Yep, as you know a lot of crews smuggle liquor and everything else out of the galley and then try every trick in the world to cheat the minibar in the room. The airline business is full of petty thieves from my experience.
Was the AC crew at the Meridien Etoile? It has minibars that try to record bottle movement but are notoriously prone to charge 100 euros everytime you slam the door.
Yep, as you know a lot of crews smuggle liquor and everything else out of the galley and then try every trick in the world to cheat the minibar in the room. The airline business is full of petty thieves from my experience.
Was the AC crew at the Meridien Etoile? It has minibars that try to record bottle movement but are notoriously prone to charge 100 euros everytime you slam the door.
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Air Can crew searched......
I think there needs to be a balance to all this where opnions are fluctuating between the sublime to the ridiculous. It seems to be a common practice with aircrew/cabin staff to take home stuff from the flights but if an airline has a policy then it obviously has to be respected. The crews being searched or rather hotels being searched after they have checked out is fetching it too far.l
