LH pilots intoxicated
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LH pilots intoxicated
Local news tells that on 20 Dec in Helsinki two Lufthansa pilots were removed from their B737 cockpit just prior to departure for Germany by the airport police and taken for blood tests. The test was positive and the pilots are no more employed by LH.
Too much of this kind of news recently. Why? Is the system today better at detecting such or are there more drinkers in the cockpit? Bad for us all and personally for the idiots involved, quite a career loss not to mention their megabuck income cut.
Too much of this kind of news recently. Why? Is the system today better at detecting such or are there more drinkers in the cockpit? Bad for us all and personally for the idiots involved, quite a career loss not to mention their megabuck income cut.
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From Skynews
AIRLINE PILOTS FACE JAIL
Two airline pilots face jail after being caught drinking alcohol before a flight.
They were given blood tests after crew members alerted police shortly before the Lufthansa flight was due to take off from Helsinki in Finland.
Prosecutors said the tests showed some alcohol in the pilots' blood, but declined to say how much.
"Under Finnish law, they could face either a fine or imprisonment of up to two years," prosecutors said.
International regulations prohibit pilots and flight attendants from flying within eight hours of consuming alcohol, while Lufthansa, along with most other airlines, has set a twelve hour restriction.
Lufthansa spokesman Michael Lamberty said the pilots, both German, had left the airline after getting the blood test results.
"In this profession, you can't get away with this. We did not fire them, but they left the company. They won't fly for Lufthansa anymore," Mr Lamberty said.
Two airline pilots face jail after being caught drinking alcohol before a flight.
They were given blood tests after crew members alerted police shortly before the Lufthansa flight was due to take off from Helsinki in Finland.
Prosecutors said the tests showed some alcohol in the pilots' blood, but declined to say how much.
"Under Finnish law, they could face either a fine or imprisonment of up to two years," prosecutors said.
International regulations prohibit pilots and flight attendants from flying within eight hours of consuming alcohol, while Lufthansa, along with most other airlines, has set a twelve hour restriction.
Lufthansa spokesman Michael Lamberty said the pilots, both German, had left the airline after getting the blood test results.
"In this profession, you can't get away with this. We did not fire them, but they left the company. They won't fly for Lufthansa anymore," Mr Lamberty said.
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AA717driver raises one key issue.
However, not only is stress now much more severe than as little as twenty years ago, but the whole package of flight time limitations, rest periods, disturbance of sleep patterns, lack of provision of crew food, suitability of overnight accomodation, treatment of staff, career dislocation, type conversion workload, attitude of co-workers, forcible geographic relocation or commuting due forcible relocation, professional liability, danger, frequent but unrealistic competency checks, frequent medical checks etc etc all adds up against even the most resilient of human beings.
Some of the above are unavoidable, but a great many are not, provided that Aviation Authorities recognise the fact and take action to legislate in favour of professional pilots.
BTW, closer to topic, alchohol levels above regulation limits is TOTALLY unacceptable. Becoming teetotal is the easiest solution, and should become mandatory for all pilots, commercial or not, IMHO !
However, not only is stress now much more severe than as little as twenty years ago, but the whole package of flight time limitations, rest periods, disturbance of sleep patterns, lack of provision of crew food, suitability of overnight accomodation, treatment of staff, career dislocation, type conversion workload, attitude of co-workers, forcible geographic relocation or commuting due forcible relocation, professional liability, danger, frequent but unrealistic competency checks, frequent medical checks etc etc all adds up against even the most resilient of human beings.
Some of the above are unavoidable, but a great many are not, provided that Aviation Authorities recognise the fact and take action to legislate in favour of professional pilots.
BTW, closer to topic, alchohol levels above regulation limits is TOTALLY unacceptable. Becoming teetotal is the easiest solution, and should become mandatory for all pilots, commercial or not, IMHO !
There are plenty of ways of "de-stressing" without having to resort to booze.
Why can't the airlines be more pro-active in informing and educating their crews about alternative relaxation techniques?
We also have to realise that the culture in our society is to use alcohol to overcome our challenges, witness the "soaps" on TV etc which portray the "glamour" of alcohol.
Pilots have a very responsible job and I tend to go with the post above that states that teetotal is probably the best way to go. Unfortunately there are some companies(this is no critcism of LH) were the drinking culture is endemic and any allusions to teetotal would be laughed at.
Why can't the airlines be more pro-active in informing and educating their crews about alternative relaxation techniques?
We also have to realise that the culture in our society is to use alcohol to overcome our challenges, witness the "soaps" on TV etc which portray the "glamour" of alcohol.
Pilots have a very responsible job and I tend to go with the post above that states that teetotal is probably the best way to go. Unfortunately there are some companies(this is no critcism of LH) were the drinking culture is endemic and any allusions to teetotal would be laughed at.
Controversial, moi?
Becoming teetotal is the easiest solution
I drink when I feel like it. I may not have a drink for a week or more. I have no problem either with or conforming with the rules.
Sounds like a complete over simplification to me.
Unfortunately there are some companies(this is no critcism of LH) were the drinking culture is endemic and any allusions to teetotal would be laughed at.
I think your statement is tosh. I have as much evidence for saying that as you have for making the statement.
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Someone out there will know for sure but I think a breath test on the ramp has been a possibility in Helsinki for a long time? Part of the local law, I understood.
TeeTotal for pilots is complete nonsense, if pilots, of all people, cannot show greater self control than average then there is no hope, IMHO. So if TeeTotal were the case then presumably we can expect it to apply right across the spectrum of people who have responsibility for other people's lives and well being?
Pilots, Cabin Crew, Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers, Train Drivers, Bus Drivers etc. etc. The list is endless.
TeeTotal for pilots is complete nonsense, if pilots, of all people, cannot show greater self control than average then there is no hope, IMHO. So if TeeTotal were the case then presumably we can expect it to apply right across the spectrum of people who have responsibility for other people's lives and well being?
Pilots, Cabin Crew, Doctors, Nurses, Lawyers, Train Drivers, Bus Drivers etc. etc. The list is endless.
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Becoming teetotal is the easiest solution
Well that's gotta be one of the stupidest ideas I've heard on PPRuNe for a while – those promoting this sound a lot like some of those soddin’ teetotal religious types, about whom the world would be a much better place if only they could just sit down and share a joke over a nice pint of beer, just like mates - mind you, one can be pretty certain that the pubs in Afghanistan are crap, compared to those in Buckinghamshire !
Indeed if I stopped imbibing it'd put dozens out of work at my local boozer and brewery – one might see it as veritably something of a social responsibility to keep them gainfully employed, and wherein one does ones best ! - plus I must say that these new Internet Pubs are just the ticket........ "Another pint of your finest please landlord !"
Indeed if I stopped imbibing it'd put dozens out of work at my local boozer and brewery – one might see it as veritably something of a social responsibility to keep them gainfully employed, and wherein one does ones best ! - plus I must say that these new Internet Pubs are just the ticket........ "Another pint of your finest please landlord !"
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They weren't just caught at the gate, according the NZZ (Zürich) - they were seen by ground personnel drinking in bars "before the flight". How long before wasn't stated.
Hard decision for the ground crew but the correct action. To my discredit I once flew with a captain who was under the influence and I noticed it. What did I do? Nothing. As I mentioned in another thread, we need to report more.
Hard decision for the ground crew but the correct action. To my discredit I once flew with a captain who was under the influence and I noticed it. What did I do? Nothing. As I mentioned in another thread, we need to report more.
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Becoming teetotal is the easiest solution, and should become mandatory for all pilots, commercial or not, IMHO !
I´m actually a bit supprised to find out that it was a LH crew that got busted as LH does not have a reputation as a ´party airline.´ They also have a lot going for them at the moment, as LH seems to be doing great financially (especially compared to Swissssss
).
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The pilot's should both have thier licences ripped up by authorities for drinking before flying, they should be stopped and should never set foot into a plane which they have responcibilities to fly. The cabin crew should be awarded greatly for stopping what might have been an air disaster with serious loss of life. Well Done cabin crew and you should be proud, what ever anyone say's about the inccident.
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Of course we all know that cabin crew :never set foot in the galley after a few belts too many
These two deserve to lose their jobs but lets not go too far with the cabin crew thing.
These two deserve to lose their jobs but lets not go too far with the cabin crew thing.
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Loss of License for stupidity, if nothing else. Folks know the rules yet they seem to forget the Money, Careers, lifestyle they are about to lose. All for a couple Brewskis.......Yes I think Stupidity is the Violation.
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Add this to your list.
So if TeeTotal were the case then presumably we can expect it to apply right across the spectrum of people who have responsibility for other people's lives and well being?
In the company cafeteria they sold both beer and wine with no restrictions on either. In the morning they would have a break and the engineers would go down to the company store and pick up several beers and some meat, cheese and bread and consume it all at their desks. They even had beer machines in the hall so you could drink a beer at your desk at any time. Alcohol is pervasive in Germany and in Bavaria beer is considered to be a food and kids can drink it at the table with their parents. Some of these kids grow up to be pilots or engineers or any of the other trades listed in the above post.
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This is the 2nd Helsinki incident I know of (Not LH) It would seem their breathalizer gadget is extremely sensitive so be carefull out there. As I have posted on this site before: When I started flying some of the skippers used to have a whisky on the last sector. We were not all crashing every five minuits, Nore were Air France. who served a SMALL bottle of wine with their crew meals up to about 8 years ago.
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Lu Zuckerman
Your amazing report about lifestyle in Bavaria warmed our hearts and is a valuable contribution in this thread. You brave man:
How could you survive those awfull habits where little kids(potential pilots) are trained to drink lakes of beer plus Kirschwasser daily because it is considered as regular food?
It was the right time to make this realistic and true picture known to the public. Thank you so much and have a nice day.
BTW: You forgot to mention a Kuckucksuhr, a Jodeldance and eins zwei suffa!
How could you survive those awfull habits where little kids(potential pilots) are trained to drink lakes of beer plus Kirschwasser daily because it is considered as regular food?
It was the right time to make this realistic and true picture known to the public. Thank you so much and have a nice day.
BTW: You forgot to mention a Kuckucksuhr, a Jodeldance and eins zwei suffa!
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When men were men and engines were round and had propellers.
Many years ago when I was in the USCG many of our pilots had been in WW 2 operating seaplanes over the North Atlantic on submarine patrols. The constant danger and the isolation resulted in a lot of drinking. During my tenure in CG aviation many of our pilots used to carry a bottle of whiskey in their nav kits when we were going for a long SAR over water. They referred to it as "engine smoothener." On one occasion I flew with our engineering officer. His nickname was Shaky but I never knew why. That is, until this flight. We flew to Buffalo NY to provide supplies to one of our helicopters that was being used to pluck fisherman off of the ice in the Niagara river prior to their going over the falls.
The truck was late and the weather was very cold. Shaky got a little anxious and went into the Admin building to visit the bar but it was closed. Slowly, he sobered up and then I knew why they called him Shaky. During our flight to Floyd Bennett field in Brooklyn, NY I did most of the flying as I did on our return to our home base.
Many of the pilots were alcoholics and were transferred to other bases mostly in Alaska. It was a sad state of affairs and I am sure it does not exist in today’s Coast Guard.
The truck was late and the weather was very cold. Shaky got a little anxious and went into the Admin building to visit the bar but it was closed. Slowly, he sobered up and then I knew why they called him Shaky. During our flight to Floyd Bennett field in Brooklyn, NY I did most of the flying as I did on our return to our home base.
Many of the pilots were alcoholics and were transferred to other bases mostly in Alaska. It was a sad state of affairs and I am sure it does not exist in today’s Coast Guard.
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Well Mr. Zuckerman,
Guess you never flew to Scandinavia and observed what and how much the pax are drinking, or did you ever fly to Russia? Ever been to Italy? Visited a pub in England? Saw a real French family at dinner? Spanish wine with tapas?
Please stay away from a discussion if you've nothing but rubbish to say.
P77
Guess you never flew to Scandinavia and observed what and how much the pax are drinking, or did you ever fly to Russia? Ever been to Italy? Visited a pub in England? Saw a real French family at dinner? Spanish wine with tapas?
Please stay away from a discussion if you've nothing but rubbish to say.
P77
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be carefull out there
"This is the 2nd Helsinki incident I know of (Not LH) It would seem their breathalizer gadget is extremely sensitive so be carefull out there."
I am sure what IcePack means is never drink if you intend to fly. It's never a question of will I miss a breathalyzer or not or are they sensitive. I am sure in Helsinki they are just as sensitive as at any other airport in Europe and US.
I recall that the previous such stupid incident was a UK cargo crew in Helsinki about a year ago. I hope such incidents are reported at every airport and that unannounced checks should be performed at all airports to all crew members in a similar way as in traffic to drivers.
I am sure what IcePack means is never drink if you intend to fly. It's never a question of will I miss a breathalyzer or not or are they sensitive. I am sure in Helsinki they are just as sensitive as at any other airport in Europe and US.
I recall that the previous such stupid incident was a UK cargo crew in Helsinki about a year ago. I hope such incidents are reported at every airport and that unannounced checks should be performed at all airports to all crew members in a similar way as in traffic to drivers.