View Poll Results: As crew or as a passenger, do you think airport security is good enough?
Yes
115
8.40%
Yes, but there is room for improvement
464
33.89%
No
613
44.78%
No, but there is not much more that can be done
170
12.42%
I have no opinion
7
0.51%
Voters: 1369. This poll is closed
Airport Security
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: croydon uk
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Manchester Airport Tribunals
Manchester Airport Group Alliance www.magalliance.com
Tribunal Hearings
The first steps in the legal challenge were made on 8 November 2002 when a Directions Hearing was held at the Employment Tribunal Offices in Manchester.
Because of the complex nature and number of claims submitted, the tribunal is expected to run for 15 days between the 8th and 26th September 2003.
The claims fall into several categories.
The Transport & General Workers Union are pursuing:
A Protective Award* for 590 Security Staff employed by Manchester Airport Plc.
15 claims for Unfair dismissal
15 claims for Breach of Contract
13 claims for Unlawful deductions
11 claims for Sex discrimination
3 claims for Trade Union Activities
*Section 188 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 outlines the legal duty on an employer to consult. Failure to comply with these requirements can be challanged under a protective award
Hope to see the Airport directors there !
Manchester Airport Group Alliance www.magalliance.com
Tribunal Hearings
The first steps in the legal challenge were made on 8 November 2002 when a Directions Hearing was held at the Employment Tribunal Offices in Manchester.
Because of the complex nature and number of claims submitted, the tribunal is expected to run for 15 days between the 8th and 26th September 2003.
The claims fall into several categories.
The Transport & General Workers Union are pursuing:
A Protective Award* for 590 Security Staff employed by Manchester Airport Plc.
15 claims for Unfair dismissal
15 claims for Breach of Contract
13 claims for Unlawful deductions
11 claims for Sex discrimination
3 claims for Trade Union Activities
*Section 188 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 outlines the legal duty on an employer to consult. Failure to comply with these requirements can be challanged under a protective award
Hope to see the Airport directors there !
Join Date: Nov 2002
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As a flight crew member, who always takes it on the chin without complaint, when an individual ( and yes it is an observation ), in some official security uniform of dubious intellectual quality asks me the same inane childlike questions in halting english, I was little surprised to see the names of the security staff who were yesterday convicted of the Heathrow heist.
Of course it is politically uncorrect to say what I actually feel.
Our lives and careers are being directly affected by the current PC surrounding airport security.
Of course it is politically uncorrect to say what I actually feel.
Our lives and careers are being directly affected by the current PC surrounding airport security.
I have to say that I consider this thread and poll to be ill-considered and irresponsible.
People like the Daily Mail's Transport Correspondent specialise in making stories which are heavily anti-aviation from the slightest bit of information or smallest occurrence. The man had three front-page headlines in one week back in September, all of which I felt were scare-mongering in the extreme.
And so here we are.
"AVIATION PROFESSIONALS CONSIDER AIRPORT SECURITY INADEQUATE"
58% of respondents to a poll on the influential Professional Pilot's Rumour Network website, an internet chatroom frequented by pilots and aviation professionals, said that they did not think airport security was adequate. Several respondents cited plastic cutlery - introduced in place of metal cutlery after the September 11 attacks - as potential weapons which could be used in a hi-jacking. The effectiveness of airfield perimeter security fencing also came under question as a means of deterring unauthorised access at some UK airfields."
And you seriously expect people to keep getting on our aircraft to keep us all in a job after this? Frankly, it's no wonder the industry is in the mire. Security needs to be taken 110% seriously but all this thread is doing is loading the ammunition into a gun for the aviation industry's detractors to pull the trigger!
People like the Daily Mail's Transport Correspondent specialise in making stories which are heavily anti-aviation from the slightest bit of information or smallest occurrence. The man had three front-page headlines in one week back in September, all of which I felt were scare-mongering in the extreme.
And so here we are.
"AVIATION PROFESSIONALS CONSIDER AIRPORT SECURITY INADEQUATE"
58% of respondents to a poll on the influential Professional Pilot's Rumour Network website, an internet chatroom frequented by pilots and aviation professionals, said that they did not think airport security was adequate. Several respondents cited plastic cutlery - introduced in place of metal cutlery after the September 11 attacks - as potential weapons which could be used in a hi-jacking. The effectiveness of airfield perimeter security fencing also came under question as a means of deterring unauthorised access at some UK airfields."
And you seriously expect people to keep getting on our aircraft to keep us all in a job after this? Frankly, it's no wonder the industry is in the mire. Security needs to be taken 110% seriously but all this thread is doing is loading the ammunition into a gun for the aviation industry's detractors to pull the trigger!
It seems to be common belief here that profiling is better than random searches. In fact, if you have any profiling at all then random searches are essential. Otherwise Mr. Al Bad'Guy just sends volunteers on as many "test flights" as it takes until he finds the two or three he needs, that never get stopped and searched.
Unfortunately, that means that *everybody* going on the aircraft is subject to the random search.
If you want the first paragraph in more detail, try this page:
http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/6805/stu...apers/caps.htm
Unfortunately, that means that *everybody* going on the aircraft is subject to the random search.
If you want the first paragraph in more detail, try this page:
http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/6805/stu...apers/caps.htm
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wet Coast
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Since when did a student's term paper become the definitive reference ? Ignoring factual errors in the opening (the terrorists did not hijack 'moments after takeoff', nor did any of them board at Providence, RI) the rest is pure sophistry, based on a flawed precept. When you have already decided the desired conclusion, constructing a 'model' to support it is a relatively simple exercise.
Have to do better than this for supporting documentation I'm afraid.
Have to do better than this for supporting documentation I'm afraid.
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Are Operating Crew subject to Pax Security Measures?
Has anyone out there any thoughts on whether Pilots/Cabin Personnel should be subject to the same security measures as passengers. I am talking only in terms of operating crews.?? Has anyone experienced difficulties since 9/11. Have you been stopped by security and why. Are you more aware of what you may be carrying with you through Security. Should security be across the board or can it be selective, with total security not undermined.??
RaydarHeadin
RaydarHeadin
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Interesting article in the Telegraph today (27NOV02) about the regional airports being a 'soft underbelly' of UK security - privately chartered light aircraft bringing in lethal material to GA or remote airports. This according to Lord Carlile QC reporting on the effectivness of Govt anti-terrorist laws.
Are we too focussed on another 9/11 style attack and missing the point??
Are we too focussed on another 9/11 style attack and missing the point??
Join Date: Oct 1999
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counting pounds missing pennies!!
Does anyone think that Crews should be allowed to carry on board items such as pocketknives/tools as part of there personal equipment.
ray
ray
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As a result of the new upgraded airport security, a total of zero hijackers have been caught, but we still see crazies taking over or attempting to takeover airliners, and they don't seem to have any trouble taking weapons on board.
This could mean we are NOT doing it right, despite the effort put in. What it DOES mean is that we are doing the terrorists' job for them and destroying aviation.
But what I don't understand is what is in it for the various governments that are buying into this stupidity. Sure they get to grow their power and thus the money they take from us, but if they end up with nobody flying, and the airlines out of business, what will they gain then?
This could mean we are NOT doing it right, despite the effort put in. What it DOES mean is that we are doing the terrorists' job for them and destroying aviation.
But what I don't understand is what is in it for the various governments that are buying into this stupidity. Sure they get to grow their power and thus the money they take from us, but if they end up with nobody flying, and the airlines out of business, what will they gain then?
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Ray - in a word - yes.
I have an axe behind my seat. I would do much more harm with that than my (banned) leatherman. My Headset now needs engineering attention when it a screw comes loose.
Anyway the good old boys from the US will soon have handguns.
I have an axe behind my seat. I would do much more harm with that than my (banned) leatherman. My Headset now needs engineering attention when it a screw comes loose.
Anyway the good old boys from the US will soon have handguns.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Another Desert
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Whilst I am sure the larger international airports have decent security, I tend to think that some of the smaller ones are lacking.
I am a charter pilot in Broome WA. It is a smaller international airport accepting nothing bigger than the 737-800 for now at least. For those of you who dont know, we are the closest international Australian airport to Bali. We have a number of corporate jets coming through each year.
The other day, I had to go around due to children running around on the runway. Perhaps they thought the name "runway" implied something for them however, if children can find their way onto the operational runway un noticed who knows what could find its way out there. To get to the operational runway from the direction they entered from, one must pass directly past the RPT apron. It is all too convenient to make a quick diversion past the 737 sitting 100 metres away.
Terrorism wouldnt be too hard hitting in Broome as their is sod all here to blow up however, how many other more popular destinations around Australia have a similar setup??
When terrorists decide that its too hard to hit the big stuff, there is nothing to stop them from going na na in a smaller yet popular tourist destination such as Broome or any other such place.
How far do we need to take Airport security?? And should it be to that extent at every single aerodrome around the world??
My point is in short, Airports such as Sydney or Melbourne are very secure, but we are ignoring smaller destinations like Broome. These smaller destinations are not the most likely places to cop a dose of terrorism however, like Bali, they are an easy place to kill alot of people.
I hope Im not giving anyone any ideas.
I am a charter pilot in Broome WA. It is a smaller international airport accepting nothing bigger than the 737-800 for now at least. For those of you who dont know, we are the closest international Australian airport to Bali. We have a number of corporate jets coming through each year.
The other day, I had to go around due to children running around on the runway. Perhaps they thought the name "runway" implied something for them however, if children can find their way onto the operational runway un noticed who knows what could find its way out there. To get to the operational runway from the direction they entered from, one must pass directly past the RPT apron. It is all too convenient to make a quick diversion past the 737 sitting 100 metres away.
Terrorism wouldnt be too hard hitting in Broome as their is sod all here to blow up however, how many other more popular destinations around Australia have a similar setup??
When terrorists decide that its too hard to hit the big stuff, there is nothing to stop them from going na na in a smaller yet popular tourist destination such as Broome or any other such place.
How far do we need to take Airport security?? And should it be to that extent at every single aerodrome around the world??
My point is in short, Airports such as Sydney or Melbourne are very secure, but we are ignoring smaller destinations like Broome. These smaller destinations are not the most likely places to cop a dose of terrorism however, like Bali, they are an easy place to kill alot of people.
I hope Im not giving anyone any ideas.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
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Had a commuting 777 pilot on my jumpseat last week who warned she had heard rumblings that security services around British and US airports were becoming increasingly worried about the number of people on aircraft claiming to have access to a fire axe. The solution to this, they say, may be move the fire axe/jemmy to a less accessible position so that no one could get at it to use it as a weapon 
Remember I am just the messenger - this is just the sort of thing that is going on in the brain of the type of person who confiscated my needle form a hotel sewing kit, leaving me with just the thread and spare button, because I "may use the needle to try and take control of the aircraft."
On a final note - 2 of my colleages had to use the jemmy recently for the reason it was put on the aircraft - to assist them in fighting a fire. Top marks to the smily boys all round - if you're reading, you know who you are
Remember I am just the messenger - this is just the sort of thing that is going on in the brain of the type of person who confiscated my needle form a hotel sewing kit, leaving me with just the thread and spare button, because I "may use the needle to try and take control of the aircraft."
On a final note - 2 of my colleages had to use the jemmy recently for the reason it was put on the aircraft - to assist them in fighting a fire. Top marks to the smily boys all round - if you're reading, you know who you are
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
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I find it very hard to accept that many of the security measures put in place at airports since the 11t Sept, or even Pan Am 103, are necessary or effective.
The current regime requires, unquestioning acceptance, of the most rediculous procedures. The end result is, or will be, that those of us who work on or around aircraft become fed up with the whole security issue & do our best to get around it.
I am not a pilot, but the the onboard security procedures at the airline who employs me are not far short of crazy.
Events today in Kenya show that inconveniencing everybody at airports, in the name of security, is no guarantee of safety. Thank goodness the terrorists in question were incompetent.
The current regime requires, unquestioning acceptance, of the most rediculous procedures. The end result is, or will be, that those of us who work on or around aircraft become fed up with the whole security issue & do our best to get around it.
I am not a pilot, but the the onboard security procedures at the airline who employs me are not far short of crazy.
Events today in Kenya show that inconveniencing everybody at airports, in the name of security, is no guarantee of safety. Thank goodness the terrorists in question were incompetent.
Eight Gun Fighter
Join Date: Apr 2000
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It always amazes me.
6839 views, 1125 votes.
All you have to do is click on the most appropriate radio button.
Do 5714 folks have no opinion on this? Or 5714 folks haven't been through an airport since (you know when)?
6839 views, 1125 votes.
All you have to do is click on the most appropriate radio button.
Do 5714 folks have no opinion on this? Or 5714 folks haven't been through an airport since (you know when)?
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Don't blame security staff!
Ghostflyer...
Even Security Staff have to have the same checks as everyone else, they have there forks, knives, penknives etc removed by their 'workmates'
Every time they go from Landside to Airside, which in the course of a Long Day,10 or 12 hr shifts, can be a lot!
The D.F.T are the one's to have a go at, they set out the rules that the Poor Security Guards have to follow or their jobs are on the line.
Even Security Staff have to have the same checks as everyone else, they have there forks, knives, penknives etc removed by their 'workmates'
Every time they go from Landside to Airside, which in the course of a Long Day,10 or 12 hr shifts, can be a lot!
The D.F.T are the one's to have a go at, they set out the rules that the Poor Security Guards have to follow or their jobs are on the line.
Eight Gun Fighter
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Not Everywhere.
I go through a special entry for crew/staff. My Restricted Area Pass is inspected to make sure that my face matches the photo. I swipe the Pass by an electronic reader to confirm current validity. We are not subject to searches or questioning.
I go through a special entry for crew/staff. My Restricted Area Pass is inspected to make sure that my face matches the photo. I swipe the Pass by an electronic reader to confirm current validity. We are not subject to searches or questioning.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
Join Date: May 1999
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In any job you either pay people a small wage and tell them to follow rules, or pay them a decent salary and require them to use their initiative.
The problem with security in the UK is that they have chosen the former and driven the wages right down. But then people in uniform always give the punters confidence.
The problem with security in the UK is that they have chosen the former and driven the wages right down. But then people in uniform always give the punters confidence.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Two incidents in the last two weeks cause me grave concern about my base airport. I'd tell you which one it is but the terrorists might be reading.
As crew we are subject to much greater scrutiny than the passengers.
As crew we are subject to much greater scrutiny than the passengers.