Citi Express Base Closures
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The announcement is - there is no announcement
The latest news today was
'the announcement is - there is no announcement (not yet anyway!!!)'
Although there were local press crews at PLH today and pax were asking staff when BA were pulling out as they'd heard it on the news!!!
All good reassuring stuff as usual
Welcome to mushroom land
'the announcement is - there is no announcement (not yet anyway!!!)'
Although there were local press crews at PLH today and pax were asking staff when BA were pulling out as they'd heard it on the news!!!
All good reassuring stuff as usual
Welcome to mushroom land
Last edited by hostie; 11th Dec 2002 at 23:36.
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It is very obvious to anyone observing the frantic goings on at Olympic House that the proposed plans to unwind the fiasco that was CitiExpress have hit major rocks. Hence no announcement again today.
Might one hazard a guess that one of the proposed buyers has decided to up the anti at the last minute to secure a better deal in the knowledge that they are dealing with a bunch of incompetent amateurs who daily demonstrate their inability to organise a drinking session in a brewery let alone run an airline?
If Eddingtom does not sever the heads of everyone and anyone associated with this shambolical and mind bendingly incompetent disaster then he is not fit to remain in office himself.
If I were one of the City clever clogs who gains intelligence from this web site and is congratulating himself on anticipating the BA share recovery.........I'd be taking my profits now. Things arent quite as rosey as you might think mate.
Might one hazard a guess that one of the proposed buyers has decided to up the anti at the last minute to secure a better deal in the knowledge that they are dealing with a bunch of incompetent amateurs who daily demonstrate their inability to organise a drinking session in a brewery let alone run an airline?
If Eddingtom does not sever the heads of everyone and anyone associated with this shambolical and mind bendingly incompetent disaster then he is not fit to remain in office himself.
If I were one of the City clever clogs who gains intelligence from this web site and is congratulating himself on anticipating the BA share recovery.........I'd be taking my profits now. Things arent quite as rosey as you might think mate.
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Tinytim,
With all due respect unless you have hard evidence or verifiable information that the company is up for sale as you seem to suggest in your posting, then it is not very helpful to start spreading these sort of rumours amongst an already anxious workforce.
Whilst I am no fan of the present management the combining of two companies and all that involved has been an enormous task and you can't say that its been a total disaster, yes mistakes have been made and great problems have existed in operating the company on a day to day basis but it is starting to work.
And while you may have no loyalty to the present company, if you believe city types do occasionally look at this site than your last comments show you have no consideration for your colleagues whatsoever.
With all due respect unless you have hard evidence or verifiable information that the company is up for sale as you seem to suggest in your posting, then it is not very helpful to start spreading these sort of rumours amongst an already anxious workforce.
Whilst I am no fan of the present management the combining of two companies and all that involved has been an enormous task and you can't say that its been a total disaster, yes mistakes have been made and great problems have existed in operating the company on a day to day basis but it is starting to work.
And while you may have no loyalty to the present company, if you believe city types do occasionally look at this site than your last comments show you have no consideration for your colleagues whatsoever.
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BA had a 1/4 page colour advert for their LBA routes in the local paper this week. Strange that they would choose to invest in marketing routes if the rumour-mill is accurate and the routes won't be be flown beyond March??
682
682
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Amazon I never said the company was up for sale.
What is obvious from anecdotal evidence from colleagues around the country (absence of J41 rosters for example), statements made to Cabin Crew at NCL, press turning up to PLH and a whole host of other incidents is that some major shake up is happening-somewhere along the lines of the speculation on this thread.
It has been daily apparent that this lot are out of their depth in running a multi-based, multi-type regional airline so some form of slimmimng down and hiving off of readily disposable bits is totally logical.
My speculation is based upon these observations and that there are more than one third parties involved, one of whom is going in for the kill at 5 minutes to midnight because he knows that these incompetents have backed themselves into a corner and have to do the deal-whatever that is at any price. I supect that that is why we are all being left hanging now.
I am sorry, I think CitiExpress has been a total disaster. In terms of morale, career opportunity and job satisfaction.
We have been messed with not once, not twice but now three times in quick succession and are governed by those elements of BRAL which contained the worst that that company had to offer now with a goodly measure of some high level BA incompetence thrown in.
Out of the former profitable companies of BRAL and BRYMON there has been created a giant which thanks to the attachment of BAR is now losing money.
As to the share price issue, The price that BA stock is quoted has no bearing whatsoever on the day to day performance of the business.
It is a measure of the effectiveness or otherwise of the company to give a return to those who buy bits of paper with BA's name on. As such, BA senior managers consider the price an indication of their machismo and corporate virility. In reality it is utterly irrelevant to us.
The point that I wanted to make was that the recovery of the price over the last few weeks seems remarkably coincident with these forthcoming announcements. So much for all this Bo£$ocks about secrecy.......the city know exactly what is happening already I suggest.
Now I wonder how?
If these brokers really knew what was going on I wonder what view they might now take?
BA and CX are sick companies which need a very hefty dose of some strong corporate medicine in the guise of the obliteration of several layers of apalling mangement.
What is obvious from anecdotal evidence from colleagues around the country (absence of J41 rosters for example), statements made to Cabin Crew at NCL, press turning up to PLH and a whole host of other incidents is that some major shake up is happening-somewhere along the lines of the speculation on this thread.
It has been daily apparent that this lot are out of their depth in running a multi-based, multi-type regional airline so some form of slimmimng down and hiving off of readily disposable bits is totally logical.
My speculation is based upon these observations and that there are more than one third parties involved, one of whom is going in for the kill at 5 minutes to midnight because he knows that these incompetents have backed themselves into a corner and have to do the deal-whatever that is at any price. I supect that that is why we are all being left hanging now.
I am sorry, I think CitiExpress has been a total disaster. In terms of morale, career opportunity and job satisfaction.
We have been messed with not once, not twice but now three times in quick succession and are governed by those elements of BRAL which contained the worst that that company had to offer now with a goodly measure of some high level BA incompetence thrown in.
Out of the former profitable companies of BRAL and BRYMON there has been created a giant which thanks to the attachment of BAR is now losing money.
As to the share price issue, The price that BA stock is quoted has no bearing whatsoever on the day to day performance of the business.
It is a measure of the effectiveness or otherwise of the company to give a return to those who buy bits of paper with BA's name on. As such, BA senior managers consider the price an indication of their machismo and corporate virility. In reality it is utterly irrelevant to us.
The point that I wanted to make was that the recovery of the price over the last few weeks seems remarkably coincident with these forthcoming announcements. So much for all this Bo£$ocks about secrecy.......the city know exactly what is happening already I suggest.
Now I wonder how?
If these brokers really knew what was going on I wonder what view they might now take?
BA and CX are sick companies which need a very hefty dose of some strong corporate medicine in the guise of the obliteration of several layers of apalling mangement.
Scourge of Bad Airline Management!
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Some observations from the back of the bus.....
A Club Europe regular writes.....
1. Anyone seen December's High Life? Singing the praises of Newcastle and plugging BA routes - and specifically singing CX's praises as well... be odd if they are going to close it, but BACX management move in mysterious ways....
2. The boys and girls at CWL (surely the best looking/performing crews in existance) are getting VERY nervous.... reports that the ABZ-BHD(or is it back at BFS?)-CWL-CDG is not long for this world, since AF do CDG-ABZ direct now.....
3. Strange recurring tale.... several people I know have tried to book BACX Club seats out of Cardiff (3 or 4 at a time for a group), to be told they are all but full, so only one gets on.... to an empty plane.... what is are reservations up to?
4. Load on CWL-CDG and BRU looks pretty good these days - the cheap fares mean that there are usually 35+ on the 145, and Club is rather fuller than it was. But this has never stopped BACX management pulling disaster from the jaws of triumph....
5. CWL is quietly going down the tubes thanks mainly to those clowns at Aviance.... tonite, got off a 145, 20 minutes wait on the bus whilst they find a driver (he is marshalling another 145 onto stand apparently...... wonder if he checks passports as well??) and got to hear two Aviance monkeys having a loud slanging match with each other, complete with expletives..... Not impressive...
Do wonder if BACX at CWL is not long for this world - and sadly, it will be the really good people - the crews - who lose out. Bet no managers get the bullet. Bet no Aviance twits do either.....
1. Anyone seen December's High Life? Singing the praises of Newcastle and plugging BA routes - and specifically singing CX's praises as well... be odd if they are going to close it, but BACX management move in mysterious ways....
2. The boys and girls at CWL (surely the best looking/performing crews in existance) are getting VERY nervous.... reports that the ABZ-BHD(or is it back at BFS?)-CWL-CDG is not long for this world, since AF do CDG-ABZ direct now.....
3. Strange recurring tale.... several people I know have tried to book BACX Club seats out of Cardiff (3 or 4 at a time for a group), to be told they are all but full, so only one gets on.... to an empty plane.... what is are reservations up to?
4. Load on CWL-CDG and BRU looks pretty good these days - the cheap fares mean that there are usually 35+ on the 145, and Club is rather fuller than it was. But this has never stopped BACX management pulling disaster from the jaws of triumph....
5. CWL is quietly going down the tubes thanks mainly to those clowns at Aviance.... tonite, got off a 145, 20 minutes wait on the bus whilst they find a driver (he is marshalling another 145 onto stand apparently...... wonder if he checks passports as well??) and got to hear two Aviance monkeys having a loud slanging match with each other, complete with expletives..... Not impressive...
Do wonder if BACX at CWL is not long for this world - and sadly, it will be the really good people - the crews - who lose out. Bet no managers get the bullet. Bet no Aviance twits do either.....
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The Full Monty
The message is going around from all but the proper sources that another mis-management monumental cock-up has occurred. We are a workforce who have shown commitment and dedication to our company over 18 difficult months. We were asked for patience, promised much, delivered more, and received very little back. A number of aircraft and bases are being disposed of with nothing to replace them with.
Be reminded how top level management have run our company. Consider the following :-
The business case made to close Bristol. Loyal and profitable staff there were made redundant. Last week, our management had the nerve to circulate around our company intranet a job vacancy for a Line Engineer at Bristol. A Bristol engineer who relocated to Edinburgh wishes to apply for the post.
The company continue to pay huge rental costs for empty Bristol premises.
6 personnel relocated from Bristol to Glasgow, being promised by Someone Whizz that Glasgow had a promising future. Some have just signed new mortgages in Glasgow. Others had their wives give up their jobs to relocate. More company cash will now be used to close down Glasgow and resurrect Bristol. What planet are these people on?
Following months of negotiation with another operator, Mr Whizz, Mr Mildew and Thick Dental Floss will shortly announce the demise of the J41 thus leaving Glasgow and other dependant bases high and dry and after paying huge amounts in personnel relocation packages. This will likely be the loss of Newcastle, Cardiff and Leeds Bradford, where only 2 months ago, BACX took on all the engineers from Nordic Aero! As there are no new aircraft to replace the J41s despite the work (!) of the FAG, the aircraft and the routes will be given away to a competitor. Our company has much past experience of giving away routes, aircraft and jobs – left, right and centre.
You want to fly to Cork? Here - take our route. We can’t compete- costs you nothing.
You want to fly from Kirkwall to Aberdeen? Take this route. Have the aircraft as well. We can’t manage.
At the slightest hint of competition our talentless mis-management withdraw.
Following the loss of the JAR 147 engineering instructors who left solely because of dissatisfaction with the management, the company had to pay a huge sum in training to contract BAe to supply training for ten company engineers to complete a J41 type course – just last week.
Other fleets of our aircraft are being maintained by third party engineering maintenance so that the company can close down our own facilities. Aircraft now receive as routine planned maintenance at locations not specified in the company’s capability listing.
After throwing masses of cash to diminish Bristol, masses more cash will be thrown to resurrect it and close the Glasgow Hangar. The J41s will be given away to Eastern who it is speculated will become a franchise partner. How many of the BACX crew and engineer staff they take on, if any at all, is unknown. How much loss in pay they are offered for the privilege of remaining in a job with a company with a poor reputation . . .
The Bristol personnel who relocated to Glasgow 2 months ago will be offered a relocation package back to Bristol. It’s all a bad joke.
It doesn’t take a crystal ball to see the Isle of Man facility will be next. Rob Sperm has already relocated to Manchester.
The talentless mis-management do nothing to confirm rumours or allay a loyal workforce’s fears.
The talentless mis-management are now a liability who have lost the plot. What are their mis-management qualifications? They are disgraced, despised, disloyal, discredited and dishonourable. Their integrity, ability and credibility is plain for all to see. The talentless mis-mismanagement sit back detached in their ivory tower and refuse to confirm or allay a loyal and worried workforces fears.
I hope Rod Eddington is watching.
Be reminded how top level management have run our company. Consider the following :-
The business case made to close Bristol. Loyal and profitable staff there were made redundant. Last week, our management had the nerve to circulate around our company intranet a job vacancy for a Line Engineer at Bristol. A Bristol engineer who relocated to Edinburgh wishes to apply for the post.
The company continue to pay huge rental costs for empty Bristol premises.
6 personnel relocated from Bristol to Glasgow, being promised by Someone Whizz that Glasgow had a promising future. Some have just signed new mortgages in Glasgow. Others had their wives give up their jobs to relocate. More company cash will now be used to close down Glasgow and resurrect Bristol. What planet are these people on?
Following months of negotiation with another operator, Mr Whizz, Mr Mildew and Thick Dental Floss will shortly announce the demise of the J41 thus leaving Glasgow and other dependant bases high and dry and after paying huge amounts in personnel relocation packages. This will likely be the loss of Newcastle, Cardiff and Leeds Bradford, where only 2 months ago, BACX took on all the engineers from Nordic Aero! As there are no new aircraft to replace the J41s despite the work (!) of the FAG, the aircraft and the routes will be given away to a competitor. Our company has much past experience of giving away routes, aircraft and jobs – left, right and centre.
You want to fly to Cork? Here - take our route. We can’t compete- costs you nothing.
You want to fly from Kirkwall to Aberdeen? Take this route. Have the aircraft as well. We can’t manage.
At the slightest hint of competition our talentless mis-management withdraw.
Following the loss of the JAR 147 engineering instructors who left solely because of dissatisfaction with the management, the company had to pay a huge sum in training to contract BAe to supply training for ten company engineers to complete a J41 type course – just last week.
Other fleets of our aircraft are being maintained by third party engineering maintenance so that the company can close down our own facilities. Aircraft now receive as routine planned maintenance at locations not specified in the company’s capability listing.
After throwing masses of cash to diminish Bristol, masses more cash will be thrown to resurrect it and close the Glasgow Hangar. The J41s will be given away to Eastern who it is speculated will become a franchise partner. How many of the BACX crew and engineer staff they take on, if any at all, is unknown. How much loss in pay they are offered for the privilege of remaining in a job with a company with a poor reputation . . .
The Bristol personnel who relocated to Glasgow 2 months ago will be offered a relocation package back to Bristol. It’s all a bad joke.
It doesn’t take a crystal ball to see the Isle of Man facility will be next. Rob Sperm has already relocated to Manchester.
The talentless mis-management do nothing to confirm rumours or allay a loyal workforce’s fears.
The talentless mis-management are now a liability who have lost the plot. What are their mis-management qualifications? They are disgraced, despised, disloyal, discredited and dishonourable. Their integrity, ability and credibility is plain for all to see. The talentless mis-mismanagement sit back detached in their ivory tower and refuse to confirm or allay a loyal and worried workforces fears.
I hope Rod Eddington is watching.
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Twin Aisle,
Thanks for the vote of support, but I should point out that the bus drivers are employed by 'Airway Handling', a subsidiary of 'Servisair' and they are even worse at organising things. They (sic) allocate the parking spots,in their capacity of 'Apron Controllers' (joke)
so they should know to send a bus driver out.....happens with everyone not just BA flights.
Dai Rear,
You should mail that reply to Rod Eddington,his address is in the corporate directory.
Thanks for the vote of support, but I should point out that the bus drivers are employed by 'Airway Handling', a subsidiary of 'Servisair' and they are even worse at organising things. They (sic) allocate the parking spots,in their capacity of 'Apron Controllers' (joke)
so they should know to send a bus driver out.....happens with everyone not just BA flights.
Dai Rear,
You should mail that reply to Rod Eddington,his address is in the corporate directory.
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Good post Dai
Every one of us has got a tale to tell of the most blistering and money wasting incompetence.
What emerges from this whole sorry tale of woe is that CitiExpress is out of control and there is no one within the present shower capeable of managing it. The bunker mentality of reducing back to BAR and getting rid of profitable routes and bases in the regions is melting CX back down to the very roots it was created from.
Instead of sacking David Evans and Rob Hearn for starters and a whole host of other similarly incompetent managers further up the line, the self same idiots who got us into this mess apparently still enjoy the confidence of Rod. That they are now being given a third chance (in 18 months!!) to get it right (at our expense) beggars belief.
Every one of us has got a tale to tell of the most blistering and money wasting incompetence.
What emerges from this whole sorry tale of woe is that CitiExpress is out of control and there is no one within the present shower capeable of managing it. The bunker mentality of reducing back to BAR and getting rid of profitable routes and bases in the regions is melting CX back down to the very roots it was created from.
Instead of sacking David Evans and Rob Hearn for starters and a whole host of other similarly incompetent managers further up the line, the self same idiots who got us into this mess apparently still enjoy the confidence of Rod. That they are now being given a third chance (in 18 months!!) to get it right (at our expense) beggars belief.
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Nav Armed correct me if I'm wrong is this or is this not a rumour site? If so then there is no need to get on your moral high ground and roll out the pet lip!
Infact the rumour I mentioned earlier is true. BACX are pulling off the NCL/DUB route, being replaced by none other than Aer Lingus, who correct me if I'm wrong stopped the route when the old Brymon started a code share. Looks like another nail in the coffin for NCL!?
Infact the rumour I mentioned earlier is true. BACX are pulling off the NCL/DUB route, being replaced by none other than Aer Lingus, who correct me if I'm wrong stopped the route when the old Brymon started a code share. Looks like another nail in the coffin for NCL!?
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Maybe the first cat out of a large bag?
From the BA web page: Press news 13th Dec 2002
British Airways is to switch its current aircraft order with Airbus to receive 10 A321 aircraft instead of 12 A318 aircraft and three A319 aircraft.
The airline’s capital spend with Airbus for the orders placed in 1998 and 1999 remains unchanged.
The 108-seater A318s and the 126-seater A319s were ordered originally to be based at regional airports in the UK. However, as part of its fleet simplification strategy, British Airways’ has decided to base its Airbus fleet at London’s Heathrow and Gatwick airports and re-deploy its fleet of 16 110-seater RJ100 aircraft from Gatwick to the British Airways CitiExpress fleet at regional airports.
From the BA web page: Press news 13th Dec 2002
British Airways is to switch its current aircraft order with Airbus to receive 10 A321 aircraft instead of 12 A318 aircraft and three A319 aircraft.
The airline’s capital spend with Airbus for the orders placed in 1998 and 1999 remains unchanged.
The 108-seater A318s and the 126-seater A319s were ordered originally to be based at regional airports in the UK. However, as part of its fleet simplification strategy, British Airways’ has decided to base its Airbus fleet at London’s Heathrow and Gatwick airports and re-deploy its fleet of 16 110-seater RJ100 aircraft from Gatwick to the British Airways CitiExpress fleet at regional airports.
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How the cookie crumbles ........
I remember TdlF telephoning me as a regular customer when he had first joined BACX telling now they had got the 145 even BRS weather would be no problem............
Look at the schedule today, cancellations galore, and GO flying their passengers from Scotland to Bristol!
Clearly a far-sighted fellow!
LOL
Look at the schedule today, cancellations galore, and GO flying their passengers from Scotland to Bristol!
Clearly a far-sighted fellow!
LOL
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Latest information from a Handling Agent Manager is that Eastern Airways have bought routes and J41 aircraft, at Newcastle. No mention was made of jobs for current BACX staff etc. This comes as no shock especially when Aer Arran are starting NCL/DUB service with effect 6 Jan and rumour has it they are doing the same route out of LBA and SOU, in place of CX.
And please................DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
Its a shame that CX management are treating their loyal and dedicated troops so badly. Indeed the BACX crew I have come into contact with are better than ones at my current airline.Someone in CX needs to take their heads and fingers from their arse and tell the staff what the hell is going on and stop playing with their lifes! Maybe then the people affected could get back on track, with maybe a better company!
And please................DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
Its a shame that CX management are treating their loyal and dedicated troops so badly. Indeed the BACX crew I have come into contact with are better than ones at my current airline.Someone in CX needs to take their heads and fingers from their arse and tell the staff what the hell is going on and stop playing with their lifes! Maybe then the people affected could get back on track, with maybe a better company!
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If someone could explain to me the rationale about not telling the workforce that restructuring plans were being evaluated I would go to bed tonight a happy man. As it is all I am hearing, and reading, are rumours, speculations and in some cases scare mongering. The truth of the matter is that the management are looking upwards instead of downwards. It's no use securing the roof of the buillding if the foundations are crumbling away. The Easyjet road show is taking place next week at the very hotel in NCL that the BACX nomads from CWL and BHX have been staying in the best part of this year thanks to FSAS1. Surely the management team are aware of the venue of this road show and yet still no official word from on high as to what is going with regard to a restructuring of assets and bases, nor a date for an official date for an announcement. I think it is an absolute disgrace and a total lack of respect from the people in Olympic House for us.
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Transwede
k,point taken.I see what your trying to say but please try and understand the position of the guy's who are directly involved with this, of which I am one of them, who constantly read as you correctly put it "Rumours"which the messenger claims to be true!! I'm directly involved in the various routes that you mentioned and I've not heard a dicky bird.Our management, who have obviously never been introduced to the concept of CRM, ie communication! haven't said anything. Suppose that's what i've come to expect now though.
Nothing personal Transwede, but i'm sure you can appreciate how bloody frustrated myself and my colleages are, at being treated like S@#T.
Just upto Christmas too. GREAT EH!
Professional mushrooms!! That's what we've become.
k,point taken.I see what your trying to say but please try and understand the position of the guy's who are directly involved with this, of which I am one of them, who constantly read as you correctly put it "Rumours"which the messenger claims to be true!! I'm directly involved in the various routes that you mentioned and I've not heard a dicky bird.Our management, who have obviously never been introduced to the concept of CRM, ie communication! haven't said anything. Suppose that's what i've come to expect now though.Nothing personal Transwede, but i'm sure you can appreciate how bloody frustrated myself and my colleages are, at being treated like S@#T.
Just upto Christmas too. GREAT EH!
Professional mushrooms!! That's what we've become.
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Rumours I've heard:
1. LBA BACX base to close. Eastern Airways to takeover
ABZ/SOU/BRS routes with J41's/J32's.
BA to keep LGW route with larger a/c. (DH3/AR1??)
Aer Lingus or Aer Arann to takeover DUB route.
2. ATP's to replace J41's at LBA?? (very doubtfull!)
3. DH3 to operate BRS-LBA-DUB-BRS at the same time as BRS-DUB-LBA-BRS.
1. LBA BACX base to close. Eastern Airways to takeover
ABZ/SOU/BRS routes with J41's/J32's.
BA to keep LGW route with larger a/c. (DH3/AR1??)
Aer Lingus or Aer Arann to takeover DUB route.
2. ATP's to replace J41's at LBA?? (very doubtfull!)
3. DH3 to operate BRS-LBA-DUB-BRS at the same time as BRS-DUB-LBA-BRS.
a few weeks ago i read someone on here telling a BA mainline pilot to get over the fact that some mainline work ( the RJ100's) would be going to BACX because they were cheaper.
it now appears that if the rumours are true some of BACX's work is going to be farmed out to a cheaper operator ie Eastern which just proves no-one is safe.
and perhaps more ominously for the future dont Eastern also operate EMB135s .
sad !!! i hope im just a pessimist
it now appears that if the rumours are true some of BACX's work is going to be farmed out to a cheaper operator ie Eastern which just proves no-one is safe.
and perhaps more ominously for the future dont Eastern also operate EMB135s .
sad !!!
i hope im just a pessimist
Last edited by stalling attitude; 15th Dec 2002 at 13:04.