Accused ATA Pilots Pass Alcohol Test
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Accused ATA Pilots Pass Alcohol Test
Pilots cleared of drinking allegation
N.Y.-Chicago flight was delayed nearly 4 hours
By Shia Kapos
Tribune staff reporter
Published September 6, 2002, 12:24 PM CDT
An airline flight out of New York City was nearly four hours late arriving in Chicago after a federal security screener Thursday night suspected its two pilots of having alcohol on their breath.
Both pilots were cleared and were returned to their plane after they took and passed Breathalyzer tests, officials said.
The incident began when the pilots for American Trans Air Flight 205 were going through the passenger screening area at La Guardia Airport in New York, officials said. The flight, with 152 passengers, was scheduled to depart at 6:40 p.m. for San Francisco with a stopover at Midway Airport.
"At one checkpoint, a screener thought he smelled alcohol," said Lisa Jacobson Brown, a spokeswoman for the Indianapolis-based airline. "But no one else did."
The screener's supervisor was called and also did not smell alcohol, Brown said. But at that point, the pilots requested Breathalyzer tests to prove they had not been drinking. Federal aviation regulations prohibit pilots from consuming alcohol just before a flight.
The two were transported to Kennedy International Airport because there was no Breathalyzer equipment at La Guardia, Brown said. She added, "They both took the tests, and they both came out 0.00."
"We are frustrated because it made our flight almost four hours late," Brown said. "It's upsetting that one person can falsely accuse the pilots of smelling like they had been drinking."
Thursday's incident was not the first time pilots have been accused of drinking before flying.
Last month, a Mesa Airlines pilot was fired after he tested positive for alcohol before a scheduled flight out of Little Rock, Ark. In July, a pilot on an ASA flight to Atlanta was grounded and later resigned after a security screener smelled alcohol on his breath.
Earlier that month, two America West pilots were removed from their plane after security crews suspected they had been drinking before a flight from Miami to Phoenix. Both were fired.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...i%2Dnews%2Dhed
__________________________________________________
2 Pilots at La Guardia Removed From Plane for Alcohol Testing
By TINA KELLEY
A pilot and co-pilot were ordered off their plane at La Guardia Airport last night after alcohol was smelled on their breath, a Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police spokesman said last night. The pilot and co-pilot took Breathalyzer tests at a hospital, and no police action was taken against them, said the spokesman, Sgt. Eugene Leary.
"They supposedly went to the hospital voluntarily," he said.
Their plane, American Trans Air Flight 205 to Chicago, was scheduled to leave at 6:40 p.m. but was delayed by four hours, according to the airline's Web site.
The pilot and co-pilot were not visibly drunk when an ATA supervisor ordered them off the plane, Sergeant Leary said. The results of their Breathalyzer tests were not available last night, and an airline spokeswoman could not be reached late last night.
Throughout the summer, pilots have been disciplined for drinking before flying.
In July, two America West pilots taxiing for takeoff from Miami International Airport were ordered to return the plane to the terminal and were arrested on charges of operating a plane while drunk. Later that month, a co-pilot with ASA, a Delta Air Lines carrier that operates eight flights daily between Atlanta and Wilmington, N.C., was grounded after a security screener smelled alcohol on his breath and stopped him from boarding an Atlanta-bound flight. And in August, a Mesa Airlines pilot who tested positive for alcohol before a scheduled flight was fired.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/06/nyregion/06PILO.html
N.Y.-Chicago flight was delayed nearly 4 hours
By Shia Kapos
Tribune staff reporter
Published September 6, 2002, 12:24 PM CDT
An airline flight out of New York City was nearly four hours late arriving in Chicago after a federal security screener Thursday night suspected its two pilots of having alcohol on their breath.
Both pilots were cleared and were returned to their plane after they took and passed Breathalyzer tests, officials said.
The incident began when the pilots for American Trans Air Flight 205 were going through the passenger screening area at La Guardia Airport in New York, officials said. The flight, with 152 passengers, was scheduled to depart at 6:40 p.m. for San Francisco with a stopover at Midway Airport.
"At one checkpoint, a screener thought he smelled alcohol," said Lisa Jacobson Brown, a spokeswoman for the Indianapolis-based airline. "But no one else did."
The screener's supervisor was called and also did not smell alcohol, Brown said. But at that point, the pilots requested Breathalyzer tests to prove they had not been drinking. Federal aviation regulations prohibit pilots from consuming alcohol just before a flight.
The two were transported to Kennedy International Airport because there was no Breathalyzer equipment at La Guardia, Brown said. She added, "They both took the tests, and they both came out 0.00."
"We are frustrated because it made our flight almost four hours late," Brown said. "It's upsetting that one person can falsely accuse the pilots of smelling like they had been drinking."
Thursday's incident was not the first time pilots have been accused of drinking before flying.
Last month, a Mesa Airlines pilot was fired after he tested positive for alcohol before a scheduled flight out of Little Rock, Ark. In July, a pilot on an ASA flight to Atlanta was grounded and later resigned after a security screener smelled alcohol on his breath.
Earlier that month, two America West pilots were removed from their plane after security crews suspected they had been drinking before a flight from Miami to Phoenix. Both were fired.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...i%2Dnews%2Dhed
__________________________________________________
2 Pilots at La Guardia Removed From Plane for Alcohol Testing
By TINA KELLEY
A pilot and co-pilot were ordered off their plane at La Guardia Airport last night after alcohol was smelled on their breath, a Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police spokesman said last night. The pilot and co-pilot took Breathalyzer tests at a hospital, and no police action was taken against them, said the spokesman, Sgt. Eugene Leary.
"They supposedly went to the hospital voluntarily," he said.
Their plane, American Trans Air Flight 205 to Chicago, was scheduled to leave at 6:40 p.m. but was delayed by four hours, according to the airline's Web site.
The pilot and co-pilot were not visibly drunk when an ATA supervisor ordered them off the plane, Sergeant Leary said. The results of their Breathalyzer tests were not available last night, and an airline spokeswoman could not be reached late last night.
Throughout the summer, pilots have been disciplined for drinking before flying.
In July, two America West pilots taxiing for takeoff from Miami International Airport were ordered to return the plane to the terminal and were arrested on charges of operating a plane while drunk. Later that month, a co-pilot with ASA, a Delta Air Lines carrier that operates eight flights daily between Atlanta and Wilmington, N.C., was grounded after a security screener smelled alcohol on his breath and stopped him from boarding an Atlanta-bound flight. And in August, a Mesa Airlines pilot who tested positive for alcohol before a scheduled flight was fired.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/06/nyregion/06PILO.html
Airbubba: Excellent point that you made by posting this. There might be lots of "frustrated police" and "pilot" or "FBI agent" wannabes among our airport security personnel. Maybe they should accuse four flightcrew members on two flights at the same time, in order for those bozos to see the light.
What happened to the person who made the accusation?
What happened to the person who made the accusation?
Chief PPRuNe Pilot
Join Date: May 1996
Location: UK
Age: 68
Posts: 16,640
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who would you want to write the news report about you if you were wrongly accused and found innocent? Shia Kapos or Tina Kelly? Those two articles on the same incident just go to show how the press can put totally different slants on the same story.
Shia kapos has explained the incident and highlighted the subsequent innocence of the crew whilst Tina Kelly has shown her inbred tabloid instinct of making out that the crew were guilty until proven innocent. The only difference between a journalist like Kelly and a Catfish is that one is a mud sucking bottom dweller.... the other is a fish!
Shia kapos has explained the incident and highlighted the subsequent innocence of the crew whilst Tina Kelly has shown her inbred tabloid instinct of making out that the crew were guilty until proven innocent. The only difference between a journalist like Kelly and a Catfish is that one is a mud sucking bottom dweller.... the other is a fish!
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: hoschton, GA, USA
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time for a the ATA pilots to find good New York City Jewish Lawyer to sue the TSA workers individualy into oblivion.
Field Sobriety tests of pilots is not included in their description of duties.
My airlines ALPA council reccommends we do not take Alcohol tests voluntary, but several pilots have in similar circumstances, and I would too.
But I would remove any passenger that caused it, and have my day in court with him.
Field Sobriety tests of pilots is not included in their description of duties.
My airlines ALPA council reccommends we do not take Alcohol tests voluntary, but several pilots have in similar circumstances, and I would too.
But I would remove any passenger that caused it, and have my day in court with him.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: KEGE
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is one of the best ideas I've heard; a written statement would be a persuasive document in court, would identify the accuser, and would delineate the allegation. More so, as implied, the accuser may not be so liberal in written statements as in verbal, hence the whole mess may be avoided by requesting a written statement from the accuser at the outset. – Add one more item to the survival kit.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
> Could always request that the person puts his/her accusation
> in writing. Might give them pause for thought.
Yes that will work, but why not make them bet a months pay on the outcome of the breath test? While we're at it why not apply the same sort of rule to security for pax? Might make them think twice before emptying out your hand luggage only to find nothing! yes nothing!. How dare they poke around your private things every time just for the sake of security. They need encouraging not work so hard..
Sarcasm off... No the real problem was the lack of a breath tester at the airport, this should have been over in 30 seconds and a handshake.
> in writing. Might give them pause for thought.
Yes that will work, but why not make them bet a months pay on the outcome of the breath test? While we're at it why not apply the same sort of rule to security for pax? Might make them think twice before emptying out your hand luggage only to find nothing! yes nothing!. How dare they poke around your private things every time just for the sake of security. They need encouraging not work so hard..
Sarcasm off... No the real problem was the lack of a breath tester at the airport, this should have been over in 30 seconds and a handshake.
jetsy
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: US for now
Posts: 524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could always request that the person puts his/her accusation in writing. Might give them pause for thought.
Yes that will work, but why not make them bet a months pay on the outcome of the breath test?
America West pilots' "accusers" should have done it and receive the "accused" yearly salaries as a bonus.
Have breathalysers installed at the airports for the pilots as a mandatory item to be cleared through security.
This way everyone is safe.
Last edited by jet_noseover; 7th Sep 2002 at 19:19.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good for the ATA crew, on the other hand, we should be fair, to the TSA employee, would be interesting to know whether he/she made an honest mistake with good intentions, or was just being a jerk....we all make mistakes....wouldn't want a "New York Jewish lawyer" on my back for every one I ever made...
Aw come on, Danny ... tell us how you really feel !
Actually I noticed the same differences that you did. The first article "stuck with the facts", while the second article included all sorts of dubious phrases, obviously put there to add "drama" to her article ... what a shame.
Actually I noticed the same differences that you did. The first article "stuck with the facts", while the second article included all sorts of dubious phrases, obviously put there to add "drama" to her article ... what a shame.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 474
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Could always request that the person puts his/her accusation in writing. Might give them pause for thought".
........Most of the personnel in security here in the States would have a hard time puting anything in writing...I think most of them sign their check with an "x".
from Shore Guy...(who had to remove his shoes twice this morning, boot up the computer twice, had my entire self gone over with a chemical/exposive sniffer, and had everything in both checked and carry on inspected before boarding - three inspections prior to boarding on a domestic flight - profiled because of one way (crew de-positioning) ticket.
If I felt these procedures were truly enhancing security and reducing "the threat", I would not be so sarcastic. But security procedures in the States are absurd....anyone who has a small bit of airport knowledge can get themselves into a secure area with little/no problem. While the low/no threat passengers are going through the new rituals, (rituals that are serving to drive away the flying public in droves - the 130+ seat aircraft I finally boarded had about 25 passengers), the real bad guys are no doubt observing, laughing, and learing how to circumvent these new procedures.
........Most of the personnel in security here in the States would have a hard time puting anything in writing...I think most of them sign their check with an "x".
from Shore Guy...(who had to remove his shoes twice this morning, boot up the computer twice, had my entire self gone over with a chemical/exposive sniffer, and had everything in both checked and carry on inspected before boarding - three inspections prior to boarding on a domestic flight - profiled because of one way (crew de-positioning) ticket.
If I felt these procedures were truly enhancing security and reducing "the threat", I would not be so sarcastic. But security procedures in the States are absurd....anyone who has a small bit of airport knowledge can get themselves into a secure area with little/no problem. While the low/no threat passengers are going through the new rituals, (rituals that are serving to drive away the flying public in droves - the 130+ seat aircraft I finally boarded had about 25 passengers), the real bad guys are no doubt observing, laughing, and learing how to circumvent these new procedures.
That is it! Demand any charges in writing, if it ever happens to us.
In Oklahoma City the other day (home to part of the FAA-"we are here to help"), there were as many personnel at security as there were passengers on the entire (short) concourse.
In Oklahoma City the other day (home to part of the FAA-"we are here to help"), there were as many personnel at security as there were passengers on the entire (short) concourse.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: US
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My vote is that the Security Worker (Police Wannabe, FBI Wannabe, Detective Wannabe, FAA Inspector Wannabe) was "predisposed" to identify a pilot/s with alcohol breath.
If they tested zero, then we have to assume there was no alcohol on their breaths, or in their systems.
Therefore, the Security Worker's imagination/fantasies were out of control. Their focuses should be on the areas they were hired for, i.e. airport security.
If they tested zero, then we have to assume there was no alcohol on their breaths, or in their systems.
Therefore, the Security Worker's imagination/fantasies were out of control. Their focuses should be on the areas they were hired for, i.e. airport security.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Honest mistake?
There has to be some sort of protection/comeback for pilots wrongly accused.
O.k. If an honest mistake eg not alchol but garlic.
HOWEVER if as an act of reprisal say a particular crew had had an argument with the accuser at some time?
Surely deformation of character or libel etc MUST come into play.
O.k. If an honest mistake eg not alchol but garlic.
HOWEVER if as an act of reprisal say a particular crew had had an argument with the accuser at some time?
Surely deformation of character or libel etc MUST come into play.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Age,status and body language define all human interaction.By elevating the status of security personnel(underway I know),not only do we get the right people for the job(federal appointees-a lose term I know)but we can eradicate any perception of animosity or ulterior motivation between those doing the checking and those being checked.Ridge is delivering on this but more has to be done.Federal-appointees is a blanket term.It means nothing unless the perceived precautions that accompany it are indeed a reality.
Last edited by Rananim; 8th Sep 2002 at 13:33.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was once accused of smelling of alcohol in work. As it happened I had just applied some roll on anti perspirant of a suitably rugged male non perfumed variety. Based on alcohol as it was no wonder I smelled of alcohol.
Certain aftershaves seem to smell more of beer than perfume.
Could this have been the reason for the error?
Certain aftershaves seem to smell more of beer than perfume.
Could this have been the reason for the error?
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Over the horizon
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would seriously look into a lawsuit if I were any of those two pilots, certainly a public apology.
Sadly, even though TSA had improved the perfomance, not to mention that most do a great job, there are those who do not belong there. The person in question needs be reprimanded and kept away from pilots, period.
To many "security" workers seems to take delight in singling out pilots, why I shall not speculate on, but not sure I look forward to another 20 years or so of having my bag turned inside out, standing around in my stockings and removing my belt.
Have 15 years certifiable aviation employment, been finger printed, background checked numerous times, certainly more throrough than the people manning the scanners.
Sadly, the DOT, FAA and the TSA continue to drag their feet on Universal Acces Cards and the trusted traveller program. If the intrusions continue on this scale, I am afraid that eventually people will say enough is enough.
Once again, it goes to mention that the cowardly acts were perpetrated not by grandmothers and kids, but by a very narrow segment of the worlds population. Maybe its about time we call a spade a spade.
Just my two cents!
Sadly, even though TSA had improved the perfomance, not to mention that most do a great job, there are those who do not belong there. The person in question needs be reprimanded and kept away from pilots, period.
To many "security" workers seems to take delight in singling out pilots, why I shall not speculate on, but not sure I look forward to another 20 years or so of having my bag turned inside out, standing around in my stockings and removing my belt.
Have 15 years certifiable aviation employment, been finger printed, background checked numerous times, certainly more throrough than the people manning the scanners.
Sadly, the DOT, FAA and the TSA continue to drag their feet on Universal Acces Cards and the trusted traveller program. If the intrusions continue on this scale, I am afraid that eventually people will say enough is enough.
Once again, it goes to mention that the cowardly acts were perpetrated not by grandmothers and kids, but by a very narrow segment of the worlds population. Maybe its about time we call a spade a spade.
Just my two cents!
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Mk. 1 desk at present...
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Honest mistake?
IcePack sayeth:
Say again? Remind me not to drink at your local! 
FWIW, I think these guys got it exactly right: I wouldn't have volunteered for a breathalyzer, I would have demanded one.
R1
O.k. If an honest mistake eg not alchol but garlic.
FWIW, I think these guys got it exactly right: I wouldn't have volunteered for a breathalyzer, I would have demanded one.
R1
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The incident began when the pilots for American Trans Air Flight 205 were going through the passenger screening area at La Guardia Airport in New York, officials said. The flight, with 152 passengers, was scheduled to depart at 6:40 p.m. for San Francisco with a stopover at Midway Airport.
"At one checkpoint, a screener thought he smelled alcohol," said Lisa Jacobson Brown, a spokeswoman for the Indianapolis-based airline. "But no one else did."
The screener's supervisor was called and also did not smell alcohol, Brown said.
"At one checkpoint, a screener thought he smelled alcohol," said Lisa Jacobson Brown, a spokeswoman for the Indianapolis-based airline. "But no one else did."
The screener's supervisor was called and also did not smell alcohol, Brown said.