BA pilot grounded over undisclosed anger
de minimus non curat lex
The heated argument clearly raised his blood pressure etc as he was probably not use to young whipper snapper’s expressing their views equally forcefully. Witnessed by his crew that day which set the tone.
So what we have is a tittle tattle story scooped by the Sun, picked up by the Wail and now gossip being spread on a website forum by anonymous contributors?
Hmmm! 🤔
Edit. Just noted that GBeebies, the Metro and Birmingham Mail have also copy pasted this story.
Hmmm! 🤔
Edit. Just noted that GBeebies, the Metro and Birmingham Mail have also copy pasted this story.
Thread Starter
I think this story emanates from someone very close to the pilot.
Perhaps, but as the tabloids are notorious for telling outright lies every day, I'll take it with a pinch of salt until something more reputable picks it up.
Thread Starter
There are various conspiracy theories about tabloid reporting but worldwide they report complicate details in layman’s language.
But in this case I am sure someone very close to the pilot was the instigator of the story.
Capt Keys(?)was a senior captain (ex WW2?)had a full blown argument with a younger pilot in the crew room who was prepared to take him on about whether strike action should occur.
The heated argument clearly raised his blood pressure etc as he was probably not use to young whipper snapper’s expressing their views equally forcefully. Witnessed by his crew that day which set the tone.
The heated argument clearly raised his blood pressure etc as he was probably not use to young whipper snapper’s expressing their views equally forcefully. Witnessed by his crew that day which set the tone.
The Captain in question is reportedly undergoing an acrimoneous divorce from his wife' who is also a pilot.
If they did they would be bankrupt. It’s very rare for a tabloid to be sued successfully.
There are various conspiracy theories about tabloid reporting but worldwide they report complicate details in layman’s language.
But in this case I am sure someone very close to the pilot was the instigator of the story.
There are various conspiracy theories about tabloid reporting but worldwide they report complicate details in layman’s language.
But in this case I am sure someone very close to the pilot was the instigator of the story.
They splash huge misleading headlines across front pages then a tiny retraction on page twelve when they get found out!
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I worked for a Chief Pilot like you once..... He did not last long
From 'How Airliners Fly' by Julien Evans:
Human factors
Humans differ from machines in that they do not always perform their activities in a predictable manner. To a very large extent this shortcoming can be overcome by training. In the operation of complex machinery such as airliners predictability is enhanced by the use of standard operating procedures (SOPs). Pilots and cabin crew come in all shapes and sizes and with differing personalities. By following SOPs, efficient and safe operation of the aircraft can be guaranteed regardless of the personalities of the individual crew members.
Another human failing is physiological and psychological variability. Persons unsuited by nature to the roles of pilot or cabin crew are normally filtered out by selection procedures. But even those who are chosen will not perform perfectly every time they go to work. However, professionalism demands that they do their best even if they are tired or angry or depressed, and doing their best means meeting or exceeding the minimum standards set.
Passengers too have a contribution to make. For example, they can take the trouble to pay attention to the safety demonstration before take-off and to read the safety card - just in case. And by reciprocating the courtesy and consideration which the cabin crew extend to them they can help build a comfortable ambience in the cabin, to the benefit of all parties. Remember that the steward or stewardess who is serving you your meal may also be the one who helps to save your life in an emergency.
The trickiest human problem is that of crew fatigue, which can be defined as debilitating tiredness. A pilot who is tired but not overtired will be able to perform his or her tasks properly, taking extra care to compensate for lack of freshness. But the very ability to self-monitor is degraded by fatigue and herein lies the danger. In other words a fatigued pilot might not be aware that he or she is performing badly. There is a degree of protection in the presence of the other pilot in the crew, one of whose primary duties is to draw attention to errors or omissions made by their colleague. If both pilots in a crew are fatigued the implications for flight safety are obvious, particularly if their workload is compounded by factors such as technical problems or bad weather or making an approach into a difficult airport.
For this reason the regulatory authorities set maximum permitted durations of duty period for pilots. These maxima are governed by factors such as the time of day (or night) the duty commences and how many legs (take-offs and landings) are to be carried out. The cabin crew must have similar protections because they too might have to carry out emergency duties at the end of the duty period. For very long flights, the rules demand the presence of an extra pilot in the crew to allow in-flight relief for the other two. Minimum lengths of rest periods between duties are also specified.
Human factors
Humans differ from machines in that they do not always perform their activities in a predictable manner. To a very large extent this shortcoming can be overcome by training. In the operation of complex machinery such as airliners predictability is enhanced by the use of standard operating procedures (SOPs). Pilots and cabin crew come in all shapes and sizes and with differing personalities. By following SOPs, efficient and safe operation of the aircraft can be guaranteed regardless of the personalities of the individual crew members.
Another human failing is physiological and psychological variability. Persons unsuited by nature to the roles of pilot or cabin crew are normally filtered out by selection procedures. But even those who are chosen will not perform perfectly every time they go to work. However, professionalism demands that they do their best even if they are tired or angry or depressed, and doing their best means meeting or exceeding the minimum standards set.
Passengers too have a contribution to make. For example, they can take the trouble to pay attention to the safety demonstration before take-off and to read the safety card - just in case. And by reciprocating the courtesy and consideration which the cabin crew extend to them they can help build a comfortable ambience in the cabin, to the benefit of all parties. Remember that the steward or stewardess who is serving you your meal may also be the one who helps to save your life in an emergency.
The trickiest human problem is that of crew fatigue, which can be defined as debilitating tiredness. A pilot who is tired but not overtired will be able to perform his or her tasks properly, taking extra care to compensate for lack of freshness. But the very ability to self-monitor is degraded by fatigue and herein lies the danger. In other words a fatigued pilot might not be aware that he or she is performing badly. There is a degree of protection in the presence of the other pilot in the crew, one of whose primary duties is to draw attention to errors or omissions made by their colleague. If both pilots in a crew are fatigued the implications for flight safety are obvious, particularly if their workload is compounded by factors such as technical problems or bad weather or making an approach into a difficult airport.
For this reason the regulatory authorities set maximum permitted durations of duty period for pilots. These maxima are governed by factors such as the time of day (or night) the duty commences and how many legs (take-offs and landings) are to be carried out. The cabin crew must have similar protections because they too might have to carry out emergency duties at the end of the duty period. For very long flights, the rules demand the presence of an extra pilot in the crew to allow in-flight relief for the other two. Minimum lengths of rest periods between duties are also specified.
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Sounds like a cabin crew with an axe to grind and there are literally thousands in BA.
Why go straight to the CAA? Why make a conspiracy theory like claim that records have been removed? Why go to the DM of all “newspapers”?
Sounds like it’s a character assassination of a pilot who stood up to a BA mainline purser for once in their life. Sad state of affairs. I hope the pilot involved sues the DM and the individual involved for libel/slander as appropriate.
Why go straight to the CAA? Why make a conspiracy theory like claim that records have been removed? Why go to the DM of all “newspapers”?
Sounds like it’s a character assassination of a pilot who stood up to a BA mainline purser for once in their life. Sad state of affairs. I hope the pilot involved sues the DM and the individual involved for libel/slander as appropriate.
We're all human and are exposed to various types of stress, which doesn't necessarily only boil down to divorce. When I was MIA based, I have known a few guys who were quite happy to get rid of the other half, so they had complete freedom to enjoy life south of the border.
My biggest personal stress was the unexpected passing of my father. Although it has been almost five years, I am still in the process of accepting his death. I have become quiet on the flightdeck, which some first officers might interpret as me not liking them.
As far as emotional outburst go, you don't have to show angry outburst to be an a$$hole. There are a few pilots at my airline that can attest to that, a common indication though is those characters voluntarily wearing their hat (optional). Some guys are just weird, just before I got promoted to LHS I flew with a few older skippers who believed in the Sasquatch and wouldn't stop talking about it every time we flew to MAO. Others believed the mothership was hiding in the CB cloud and requested additional lateral clearance to not anger ... nevermind. But those guys with their weird beliefs turned out to be really good pilots although I am not sure they would have passed the airline psychological exam.
There is no evidence they went straight to the Daily Mail.In fact the story,which was later used on other news sites,originally appeared in the Sun.
Tabs please !
The Staines Trident crash was due to the Captain bringing in the leading edge droops, which was not called out by either of the two junior crew on the flight deck. They either did not notice (unlikely IMHO) or the gradient of command was an inhibiting factor.
Agreed. It was also when, during post mortem of the crew, arterial clogging was evident in the Captain and research on cholesterol , cause and effect went into another phase.
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Was this able to be proven though? If I recall correctly the aircraft had a limited FDR and no CVR, and although the droops were found retracted I thought that the scenario of the Captain retracting them was a 'best guess'?
A lot of rubbish posted re Stan Key..you guys should read the thread.. Staines, UK 1972, June 18th.
It would now be classed as a “training accident” with foolish procedures, an untrained second officer who was forced upon captains at the time under threat of suspension and wasn’t legally qualified.
I was bullied and humiliated by a manager in the middle of the crew room a few months after the accident having asked to be replaced as I was bullied on the flight deck by a little jock ex Sargent pilot who had been posted down from Scotland after 2/3rds of the experienced first officers had refused to fly with him although I didn’t know that at the time.
Part of the problem was ex short service pilots who were never offered permanent commissions running management; it continued for years and those who know the story of an infamous fleet manager suddenly disappearing off the scene aided by a posse of copilots threatening management and the authority with going to the press showed that nothing had changed in two decades.
It would now be classed as a “training accident” with foolish procedures, an untrained second officer who was forced upon captains at the time under threat of suspension and wasn’t legally qualified.
I was bullied and humiliated by a manager in the middle of the crew room a few months after the accident having asked to be replaced as I was bullied on the flight deck by a little jock ex Sargent pilot who had been posted down from Scotland after 2/3rds of the experienced first officers had refused to fly with him although I didn’t know that at the time.
Part of the problem was ex short service pilots who were never offered permanent commissions running management; it continued for years and those who know the story of an infamous fleet manager suddenly disappearing off the scene aided by a posse of copilots threatening management and the authority with going to the press showed that nothing had changed in two decades.