United captain arrested at Edinburgh
Could be lots or few/none as there is zero evidence for this as well? OK, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but would you fly with someone who was alcohol-impaired? I wouldn’t..........
Sadly, commercial interests win out and the humans take the blame for being, well, human.
Sadly, commercial interests win out and the humans take the blame for being, well, human.
that the overall risk to aviation is very low
An altitude deviation, a misunderstood clearance early on in the flight?
There’s no testing required for these potentially high risk but eventually non consequential events.
So we’ll never know how many of these events are caused by fatigue, self medicating or while even slightly intoxicated.
We don’t know how many times a multi crew environment covers the induced errors.
Again, self reporting and self grounding is something different then getting caught and playing the compliant victim.
Apart from the (complete?) lack of alcohol-induced incidents and accidents over many many years and hundreds of millions of flight hours plus a lot of investigations and testing? If this was similar to EROPS certification, it would have passed with flying colours a long time ago?
And why should there be? From reports and observation, these occur in a random fashion during normal operations. It’s things like noisy channels, confirmation bias, authority gradient, improper readbacks, non-adherence to SOPs, etc. None of these need any level of intoxication to present themselves. Does a deep or short landing imply that the pilot has been on the sauce during the approach? To kind of answer that, for motor skills to be that degraded would make it rather obvious to others that the pilot in question was half-cut a long time before?
Yes, but as we’ll never know we can’t always attribute them to a particular factor. Is it the breakfast cereal, toilet paper or even Aliens? We do know from post-analysis when pilots are likely to have been suffering from fatigue after an accident, as we know their duty periods, actions and communications, and if they're still alive, how well they were rested and what they were feeling like in retrospect. And whether they’d dropped by the pub shortly before report.
Relevant to this thread but not to the question of risk. From personal experience, people who have a serious enough problem to drink regardless of whether they are going flying, in full knowledge that it is a stupid (and criminal) thing to do, are what some might call “functional alcoholics” and don’t seem to be affected by a particular quantity of alcohol to the same degree as those who are moderate or abstain. Doesn’t make it right but this scenario is played out continually in all walks of life - it would be much better if everybody with this kind of problem went straight for professional help instead of the aeroplane but that’s not how it works most of the time, unfortunately.
TL;DR Flying + Alcohol = Bad, but not half as bad or common as other factors that are much more likely to lead to unpleasantness but don’t make the news...
An altitude deviation, a misunderstood clearance early on in the flight?
There’s no testing required for these potentially high risk but eventually non consequential events.
There’s no testing required for these potentially high risk but eventually non consequential events.
So we’ll never know how many of these events are caused by fatigue, self medicating or while even slightly intoxicated.
Again, self reporting and self grounding is something different then getting caught and playing the compliant victim.
TL;DR Flying + Alcohol = Bad, but not half as bad or common as other factors that are much more likely to lead to unpleasantness but don’t make the news...
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Proper poisoning
Try getting eyedrops in your crew meal halfway across the Atlantic. Some idiot cabin crew member did that (Thomas Cook Airways) and the pilot was incapacitated for hours. Naturally it was covered up by airline management. That was a bigger risk than 49mg/ml of C2H5OH in your bloodstream, I feel.
MissChief, those were the days. CRM started and stopped with the "Goodmorning" and a "brown cow" was a landing drink before the drive home. Rock and Roll years.
I was on vacation in the US about 30 years ago. About three months before going on vacation I had been assaulted on the street in the UK with minor injury but it left me with some fears going out and I got taxis everywhere between bars if on a night out. Anyway on my US vacation I saw a pepper spray for sale quite openly in a pharmacy. I literally thought, oh great that's what I need. Ultimately I saw sense and did not purchase it.
Latest report on the Delta Captain is that he has been jailed today for 10 months for being over the limit.
Delta Captain jailed for 10 months
It's unclear from any of my local sources if he has actually been on remand all of the time since his arrest, but if so, this could effectively be a "Time Already Served" decision.
Delta Captain jailed for 10 months
It's unclear from any of my local sources if he has actually been on remand all of the time since his arrest, but if so, this could effectively be a "Time Already Served" decision.
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He had been remanded in custody so, yes, that will count towards his 10 months. Given his offence I do think that he got off lightly but the big question for Delta is, as he was a being treated for alcoholism, why was he allowed to continue to fly?
Latest report on the Delta Captain is that he has been jailed today for 10 months for being over the limit.
Delta Captain jailed for 10 months
It's unclear from any of my local sources if he has actually been on remand all of the time since his arrest, but if so, this could effectively be a "Time Already Served" decision.
Delta Captain jailed for 10 months
It's unclear from any of my local sources if he has actually been on remand all of the time since his arrest, but if so, this could effectively be a "Time Already Served" decision.
I would have thought that most pilots are already aware of the rules regarding drugs,weapons and pornography when they are rostered to foreign parts.
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Originally Posted by The BBC
Lynne Barrie, procurator fiscal for Lothian and Borders, said: "Lawrence Russell's conduct would have endangered many lives; the consequences could have been catastrophic."He showed a reckless disregard for the safety of his passengers and crew. The pilot of a commercial aircraft holds the lives of hundreds in his hands. He would have put all of them at serious risk.
As they say in court - may I bring "further and better particulars" M'lud?
It turns out the accused only spent 2 days on remand in June 2023 thus he will have to serve the 10 months sentence from 3rd March 2024. With the usual reduction in time served for short sentences he should be out before christmas..
From the Judges notes.
It turns out the accused only spent 2 days on remand in June 2023 thus he will have to serve the 10 months sentence from 3rd March 2024. With the usual reduction in time served for short sentences he should be out before christmas..
From the Judges notes.
Having regard to all the circumstances, including your own personal mitigation, the sentence I am imposing is a sentence of 10 months imprisonment. I have discounted that from a headline sentence of 15 months, taking into account the fact that you pled guilty at the earliest opportunity.
The sentence will be backdated to a notional commencement date of 3 March 2024, to take account of the 2 days you spent on remand when you appeared on petition on 19 June 2023.
The sentence will be backdated to a notional commencement date of 3 March 2024, to take account of the 2 days you spent on remand when you appeared on petition on 19 June 2023.
"The 63-year-old, from Georgia, pleaded guilty to a charge of performing an aviation function while impaired due to drink or drugs when he appeared at Edinburgh Sheriff Court earlier this month and was remanded in custody." DT
Has it been mentioned what size the " two bottles of Jägermeister " were ? Normal 70 cl or smaller ?
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https://nypost.com/2024/03/20/world-...flight-to-nyc/
Russell lost his job and was diagnosed with severe alcohol use disorder, which the sheriff noted has been in remission after he completed a recovery program for pilots. Stirling said that while the married dad-of-two had no prior convictions in the UK, his history included multiple DUI instances.
Since his arrest, the disgraced pilot has been on long-term disability and receiving half his salary from Delta, which was described as being “very supportive” of Russell. After completing his jail term, Russell will have to re-apply for an aviation medical certificate. If granted, he could be re-instated to his former job as a captain.
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Like most western countries the UK has a mandatory drugs & alcohol testing program. I have never been tested in the UK nor do I know anyone who has (I got tested in Sweden a couple of times on a SH turnround but that's it). I understand entire crews get selected randomly at base but I have not yet experienced it. Anecdotally I believe a few cabin crew have tested +ve for cocaine and been dismissed on the spot but other than that...... nothing.
The threat here is the secret alcoholic who is a master at hiding their addiction. The only context you might be able to detect a colleague abusing alcohol is when you go for a quiet drink after work. He/she is the one who is drinking heavily, or topping up their mixer with miniatures out of their bag/pocket. You can keep an eye on them... but is it an addiction? Or are they just overdoing it tonight because they are going though a bad patch at home? Most of us have a fundamental human desire to avoid confrontation with others. Do you report them, and open up a whole world of pain for them, possibly unnecessarily? Or do you let it slide? I guess that depends on how serious you perceive their problem to be.
All this is tempered with the fact that you may not see/fly with them for a couple of years so in a few of days it will become somebody else's problem. By the same token, airlines don't want the bad publicity that goes with one of their crew getting busted for drink/drugs. The whole area is a Pandora's Box that nobody is in a hurry to open. That is the reality of our business.
The threat here is the secret alcoholic who is a master at hiding their addiction. The only context you might be able to detect a colleague abusing alcohol is when you go for a quiet drink after work. He/she is the one who is drinking heavily, or topping up their mixer with miniatures out of their bag/pocket. You can keep an eye on them... but is it an addiction? Or are they just overdoing it tonight because they are going though a bad patch at home? Most of us have a fundamental human desire to avoid confrontation with others. Do you report them, and open up a whole world of pain for them, possibly unnecessarily? Or do you let it slide? I guess that depends on how serious you perceive their problem to be.
All this is tempered with the fact that you may not see/fly with them for a couple of years so in a few of days it will become somebody else's problem. By the same token, airlines don't want the bad publicity that goes with one of their crew getting busted for drink/drugs. The whole area is a Pandora's Box that nobody is in a hurry to open. That is the reality of our business.
