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United captain arrested at Edinburgh

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United captain arrested at Edinburgh

Old 22nd Jan 2024, 08:00
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United captain arrested at Edinburgh

Surprised no one really talking about this event.....

https://planetradio.co.uk/forth/loca...gers-stranded/
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 10:16
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That's what I was wondering on the EDI Thread. Had it been an actual firearm, I'd have been thinking it was potentially a forgetful Auxiliary Federal Air Marshal, or however they are styled, but I don't think a taser is covered by this

FWIW, the feed of EDI news into the channel has been a little off the boil of late, even missing the bit about the passenger who died after apparently falling from a passenger lift from plane to tarmac back in October(? IIRC). I think we may need a fresh crop of news gathering "moles"
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 16:59
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Tasering the FO seems an extreme form of CRM.
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Old 22nd Jan 2024, 23:35
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Originally Posted by Ninthace
Tasering the FO seems an extreme form of CRM.
No more so than the Effo threatening the Captain with a gun... WTF is going on with hiring in the States where you have this happening?!?
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 01:46
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The latest from the Edinburgh Evening News

American airline pilot appears at sheriff court on firearms charge

Pilot was arrested by armed police at Edinburgh Airport on Saturday morning

An American airline pilot has appeared in court on petition in connection with a firearms offence.

Ryan Christopher Cecil, 56, appeared from custody and faced a charge under the Firearms Act 1968 Section 5 (1) (B) at Edinburgh Sheriff Court on Monday.

Sheriff John Cook released the US pilot on bail and his next court date is still to be confirmed.

Cecil was arrested by armed police officers at Edinburgh Airport on Saturday morning after he was allegedly caught in possession of a taser in his carry-on luggage.

The Boeing 757 flight from Edinburgh to Newark Liberty International Airport near New York was immediately cancelled following his arrest.

Following the incident, a United Airlines spokesperson said: “This employee was immediately removed from service and we are fully cooperating with local authorities.”
source https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...charge-4488576
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 06:03
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Has Edinburgh got that bad? I remember Glasgow being not the friendliest places for english in the 70s but would have thought that a yank wouldn’t need a taser except in Capetown.
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 06:32
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Originally Posted by blind pew
Has Edinburgh got that bad? I remember Glasgow being not the friendliest places for english in the 70s but would have thought that a yank wouldn’t need a taser except in Capetown.
I don’t suppose he was very happy appearing before the initial hearing after spending the weekend in custody in an Edinburgh police cell.
This will take a few weeks to sort out.
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 09:51
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You have to wonder how he got the stun gun through security in the USA to get it to EDI in the first place. I'm sure he wouldn't have bought it while he was there to smuggle back to the US.

Do the TSA have questions to answer? If pilots can smuggle firearms into the the UK, how many are in the pax baggage?
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 10:21
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You cannot legally buy stun guns in the UK. I am sure the protracted confinement to Edinburgh in winter for the legals to take place will be sufficient for the court to just fine him.
However it does mean he will have a criminal record in the UK if found guilty,
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 16:17
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https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...ibited-weapon/

I'd guess he's probably in Harm Category 3, culpability C = fine, community service etc - but given how much effort they put in to stop ordinary folk carrying weapons onto aeroplanes he may finish up with a short custodial sentence, tho he probably won't actually go to prison . He'll need a good lawyer
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 17:03
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Taser type device BIG ******* DEAL. I'm sure the cops in Edinburgh have more to keep than occupied than that.
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 17:46
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you clearly don't realise just how strict the law (and public opinion) is in the UK. The STARTING point for sentencing is 5 years inside without the option. If you can show that you have no intention of using it (so why were you carrying it?) and its non-lethal and you didn't wave it around they may decide on a shorter sentence. Its 10 years if its disguised as something else. Many of these sentences are mandatory.

If he's lucky he'll get something like the guy in Oxford

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/man-senten...068.htmlMoussa Adoum, 38, of Whitehouse Road, South Oxford, was charged with possessing the weapon which discharges an electrical charge. He pleaded guilty at Oxfordshire Magistrates Court last month for the incident which took place in Oxford on May 14, 2021. Adoum received a 20-week prison sentence suspended for 18 months because the offence was so serious.

or: elsewhere-

While two response officers approached the 44-year-old suspect shortly after 7.10pm on July 15, he was seen to discard something on the floor which turned out to be a taser type device. Armstrong pleaded guilty to the offence at Nottingham Magistrates' Court on November 4 last year and was given an eight months prison sentence suspended for 18 months at Nottingham Crown Court on February 4, 2021.

I think the French start with a year for carrying a TASER.
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 17:54
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Originally Posted by allaru
Taser type device BIG ******* DEAL. I'm sure the cops in Edinburgh have more to keep than occupied than that.
I'm not a lawyer, but the the specific deal appears to be the Firearms Act 1968 Section 5 (1) (B) which is available to read here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/section/5

Originally Posted by Firearms Act 1968
Weapons subject to general prohibition.

(1) A person commits an offence if, [without authority], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing.
The above offence doesn't carry a mandatory sentence.

The guidelines for 5 (1) (B) offences are contained in the schedule here https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27/schedule/6 but in summary the maximum sentence is 10 years.
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 17:57
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All - the Sentencing Council stuff only applies in England & Wales. Significantly different firearms rules & procedures, courtesy of Scottish Legislation, and different Scottish Sentencing Council tarriffs/guidance apply up here. The type of sentence available depends both on how the case is defined and the type of court which deals with the offence, all of which is determined by the Procurator Fiscal's office.

I'm not saying a volume of legal precedence will not be propelled through the air in his direction, but much will depend on how the Procurator Fiscal approaches things.

Remember chaps that innocent until proven guilty (of whatever offence) still applies & we should not be rushing to judgement, much less pronouncing a sentence without knowing all of the facts and hearing all of the legal arguments and mitigating circumstances.

Last edited by Donkey497; 23rd Jan 2024 at 20:48. Reason: clarification & expansion
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Old 23rd Jan 2024, 23:10
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Originally Posted by allaru
Taser type device BIG ******* DEAL. I'm sure the cops in Edinburgh have more to keep than occupied than that.
no, not really, firearms offences (and taser type devices are classed in Scottish law as firearms) are about as serious as it gets...

attempting to smuggle a firearm onto an aircraft is even worse.

This isn't the USA, we take firearm offence EXTREMELY seriously.
In the year 2020-21 there were only 273 firearm offences in the whole country

Bulgaria (a country with a similar sized population to Scotland) has 5 times more firearm offences that the WHOLE of the UK.
It is difficult to quantify a comparison with say the US, as I can only find statistics on firearm deaths, rather than crimes in general (eg an armed robbery where a weapon is not discharged and no-one is hurt)
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 00:16
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Originally Posted by Lomon
It is difficult to quantify a comparison with say the US, as I can only find statistics on firearm deaths, rather than crimes in general (eg an armed robbery where a weapon is not discharged and no-one is hurt)
Roughly 257,000 firearm involved offences in the US (2022 estimates from the FBI, likely undercounting), or 760 per million people.

10,000 (2019, from the ONS) in England and Wales or 173 per million people.

341 in Scotland (2020, from the Scottish government) or 62 per million people



Last edited by Abrahn; 24th Jan 2024 at 00:34.
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 02:07
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How is a taser a firearm? l
I asked the cops I know about calling a taser a firearm.
The look they offer is about one eye roll. And the answer is "No, it's not a firearm, but it must be treated with care."
(As for the captain in question, FFS, know the rules and apply them)
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 03:41
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
How is a taser a firearm? l
I asked the cops I know about calling a taser a firearm.
The look they offer is about one eye roll. And the answer is "No, it's not a firearm, but it must be treated with care."
(As for the captain in question, FFS, know the rules and apply them)

The UK is a lot different the USA. The law describes it as thus;

A Taser is a weapon capable of discharging an electrical current and is classified as a prohibited firearm. It is therefore an offence to possess, purchase, acquire, manufacture, sell or transfer such a weapon, without lawful authority.

If you are found in possession of a stun gun, you could face up to ten years imprisonment and/or a fine.
Similar laws are common across Europe.


source https://www.askthe.police.uk/view-ca...ul%20authority.
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 03:53
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Let's hope the guy had a reasonable reason for carrying it, and that the authorities are willing and able to cut him some slack.
(Spoken from experience of generosity shown by airport officials in the US, many years ago. 'Nuff said.)
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Old 24th Jan 2024, 06:33
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It's a firearm, even according to the acronym

Tom A. Swift Electric Rifle

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