United captain arrested at Edinburgh
"Let's hope the guy had a reasonable reason for carrying it,"
That's a hard one - his best shot is to plead guilty and say he forgot all about it as, its common in the US. Unless he threatened someone, waved it about or mouthed off to the arresting officers he's probably not going to prison - unless he has previous or he was drinking or..............
Points up the importance of thinking when you travel overseas - laws are NOT the same as at home and attitudes my be VERY different. In the UK there are no "flag laws" and if you tear up the countries flag you're just thought to be an idiot - in the USA you're likely in a heap of trouble.
That's a hard one - his best shot is to plead guilty and say he forgot all about it as, its common in the US. Unless he threatened someone, waved it about or mouthed off to the arresting officers he's probably not going to prison - unless he has previous or he was drinking or..............
Points up the importance of thinking when you travel overseas - laws are NOT the same as at home and attitudes my be VERY different. In the UK there are no "flag laws" and if you tear up the countries flag you're just thought to be an idiot - in the USA you're likely in a heap of trouble.
I used to carry my ex RAF dinghy knife (the first, pointed version) in its sheath, bolted inside the folded lid of my crewbag back in the 70s. This was absolutely not in accordance with my airline's policy and in all honesty I don't know whether it would have been of use in a hijacking but it felt a bit safer. It was not found until a dead heading flight on Delta from Bangor to NY, where it showed up on the pax scanner. Even then it took four searches before they finally located it. "What is this for?" "Sharpening pencils!" It was sent for "safe keeping" to the cockpit and the Cpt gave it back to me on disembarking... Having this item in a cockpit, was considered safer than it being in the cabin in those days, when crew members were not subject to security checking.
While we are on the subject, relevant guidance from Police Scotland on firearms
Guidance on Firearms & Exposives licensing
It should also be considered, especially by our N. American & Southern neighbours that significant restrictions also apply to air pistols / air rifles, BB guns, (and, I believe even) airsoft weapons under the additional legislation passed by the Scottish Government back in 2015.
Air Weapon Licensing & Penalties
Guidance on Firearms & Exposives licensing
It should also be considered, especially by our N. American & Southern neighbours that significant restrictions also apply to air pistols / air rifles, BB guns, (and, I believe even) airsoft weapons under the additional legislation passed by the Scottish Government back in 2015.
Air Weapon Licensing & Penalties
Thread Starter
Seriously....no one is asking...why did he have it with him? My first thought is that he intended to use it....when? Onboard the aircraft? He is a professional pilot. Forget his toothbrush maybe but not that he is carrying a taser for goodness sake. He deserves everything that comes his way. I hope it's severe enough to make it known to all that such things are not welcome on aircraft and in the UK.
I would have thought the things most likely to catch tourists out would be pepper spray being classed as a firearm and the pointed and bladed article stuff.
But airlines should, surely, be briefing their crews on local laws?
At least we're allowed to cross the road without supervision!
But airlines should, surely, be briefing their crews on local laws?
At least we're allowed to cross the road without supervision!
"Seriously....no one is asking...why did he have it with him? My first thought is that he intended to use it....when?"
He was flying to New York - he probably felt it was less dangerous than having a firearm (eg if you have kids around the house) and, like our US contributors , didn't see it as a "firearm" at all.............
He was flying to New York - he probably felt it was less dangerous than having a firearm (eg if you have kids around the house) and, like our US contributors , didn't see it as a "firearm" at all.............
While he probably didn't, it's still a dangerous tool/weapon. Since he was going to be in a foreign country it strikes me as foolish not to check out the regs for the country one is traveling to before one considers carrying such an item around.
Seems like a necessary "preflight" (like checking NOTAMS) before a trip.
Seems like a necessary "preflight" (like checking NOTAMS) before a trip.
A quick check of TSA regulations also advises that stun guns/TASERS etc are prohibited from cabin bags and must be carried in the hold (providing that the device doesn't have lithium batteries)
Which I suppose raises the question what did or didn't the TSA do on the outbound leg?
Which I suppose raises the question what did or didn't the TSA do on the outbound leg?
Has it been confirmed that it was actually a "Taser" and not a "Plasma lighter"?, which is fundamentally the same as a Taser but the initial intention could be quite innocent.
(Plasma lighters are still regulated however, on how and where the can be stored for transit.)
(Plasma lighters are still regulated however, on how and where the can be stored for transit.)
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Off topic, but before 9/11, I used to fly routinely all over the US with a couple dozen box cutters with my company's logo in my briefcase for giveaways to customers...
Also off topic:
I flew on Victors in the RAF in the sixties and seventies. We had a co-pilot known as 'jaapie' - ie from South Africa- and he had a hand gun for which he had a licence..When we did tanking sorties in the Middle East he always took his gun with him. He held it in a shoulder holster under his flying suit.He left it in the cockpit when we night stopped. Not sure he ever declared it to the Customs at Marham but he did have a Firearms Certificate for the gun.
I flew on Victors in the RAF in the sixties and seventies. We had a co-pilot known as 'jaapie' - ie from South Africa- and he had a hand gun for which he had a licence..When we did tanking sorties in the Middle East he always took his gun with him. He held it in a shoulder holster under his flying suit.He left it in the cockpit when we night stopped. Not sure he ever declared it to the Customs at Marham but he did have a Firearms Certificate for the gun.
Also off topic, but relevant.
I think many people in the UK don't appreciate the almost casual attitude to weapons that is quite prevalent in the US.
I was once visiting someone in California and stayed overnight. His "guest room" was a Winnebago, parked in the driveway. He showed me where all the controls and switches were and then opened a cupboard to point out where the loaded 357 Magnum was, should I need it!
Years earlier, when I went to Houston for the first time, for a company course, a Texan colleague told me that probably 50% of the cars in the office car park would have a gun in the glove box.
I think many people in the UK don't appreciate the almost casual attitude to weapons that is quite prevalent in the US.
I was once visiting someone in California and stayed overnight. His "guest room" was a Winnebago, parked in the driveway. He showed me where all the controls and switches were and then opened a cupboard to point out where the loaded 357 Magnum was, should I need it!
Years earlier, when I went to Houston for the first time, for a company course, a Texan colleague told me that probably 50% of the cars in the office car park would have a gun in the glove box.
Last edited by India Four Two; 24th Jan 2024 at 23:10.
Roughly 257,000 firearm involved offences in the US (2022 estimates from the FBI, likely undercounting), or 760 per million people.
10,000 (2019, from the ONS) in England and Wales or 173 per million people.
341 in Scotland (2020, from the Scottish government) or 62 per million people
10,000 (2019, from the ONS) in England and Wales or 173 per million people.
341 in Scotland (2020, from the Scottish government) or 62 per million people
I do think it is a bit excessive classing it under firearms legislation though. Wouldn’t it be better classed as an offensive weapon? Isn’t pepper spray also classed as a firearm under the firearms act?
Incidently, let’s not forget firearms are legal in the UK with the appropriate licence. It isn’t that difficult to get one either. As for shotguns, they are ludicrously easy to obtain legally.
Incidently, let’s not forget firearms are legal in the UK with the appropriate licence. It isn’t that difficult to get one either. As for shotguns, they are ludicrously easy to obtain legally.
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As an American, I would not think of a TASER as a firearm whatsoever. They sell combination TASER/Flashlights at the checkout in the local hardware store for about $30. (not to be confused with the police TASER that actually shoots wires across the room, those are regulated here). Pepper spray likewise is common, my wife's company had a giveaway at lunch one and put out a huge box of them for everyone to grab for free. This predictably degenerated into a few people wanting to see how bad the stuff smelled and stinking up the office.
BTW, the TSA found people trying to carry guns on airplanes illegally almost 7,000 times last year! I bet that is about 6.999 more than the UK.
BTW, the TSA found people trying to carry guns on airplanes illegally almost 7,000 times last year! I bet that is about 6.999 more than the UK.
I do think it is a bit excessive classing it under firearms legislation though. Wouldn’t it be better classed as an offensive weapon? Isn’t pepper spray also classed as a firearm under the firearms act?
Incidently, let’s not forget firearms are legal in the UK with the appropriate licence. It isn’t that difficult to get one either. As for shotguns, they are ludicrously easy to obtain legally.
Incidently, let’s not forget firearms are legal in the UK with the appropriate licence. It isn’t that difficult to get one either. As for shotguns, they are ludicrously easy to obtain legally.
Last edited by Abrahn; 25th Jan 2024 at 22:25.
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It is. I witnessed a pax at LHR T5 fast track security getting her collar felt by a couple of armed rozzers for having pepper spray in her carry about eight years ago, I didn't hang around to see the end game, but not making her flight might've been the least of her worries. She certainly didn't understand the seriousness of it.
Some years ago, the standard security check of tourists at Buckingham Palace detected a revolver and live rounds carried by an American man. It seems that he was a US policeman, and had brought the items over on a flight with no problems: it seems that he had just shown his police ID to the security in the US airport who let him through with no checks, and, apparently, he had no idea that guns and ammo were illegal in the UK. He was most offended when they were confiscated.
I do think it is a bit excessive classing it under firearms legislation though. Wouldn’t it be better classed as an offensive weapon? Isn’t pepper spray also classed as a firearm under the firearms act?
Incidently, let’s not forget firearms are legal in the UK with the appropriate licence. It isn’t that difficult to get one either. As for shotguns, they are ludicrously easy to obtain legally.
Incidently, let’s not forget firearms are legal in the UK with the appropriate licence. It isn’t that difficult to get one either. As for shotguns, they are ludicrously easy to obtain legally.
what we all think is reasonable doesn't count - its what the law says that counts
And although it is possible to get a licence for a rifle for hunting any sort of handgun is almost impossible