Jump seat pilot tries to shut down engines in-flight?
Other than “doing something,” not sure what such action would accomplish (at least in this event). This guy was an off-duty Alaska Air pilot. Eventually he was going to be on the flight deck as a pilot. Would the outcome have been better with just the bad-guy pilot and a good-guy pilot and no jump seater?
Psychophysiological entity
If he'd wanted to sleep, he'd have gone down the back. Having a bad reaction to taking something off the books might lower the severity of the multiple lists of charges X 83 that he seems to be faced with. Entering a dream state and physically acting it out is a reality - one of the side effects of some new antidepressants. This kind of surprise is exactly why aircrew shouldn't 'just try this or that'.
He wanted the police to meet the gate.
He wanted the police to meet the gate.
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I would be willing to wager a paycheck that this guy had some sort of mental break, perhaps enhanced by the use of what may have been a perfectly legal prescription drug.
+1 to nobody taking any psychotropic without being honest with the prescribing physician as well as having a full grasp of potential side effects.
Wonderful that the flight was saved from disaster.
+1 to nobody taking any psychotropic without being honest with the prescribing physician as well as having a full grasp of potential side effects.
Wonderful that the flight was saved from disaster.
It wouldn't make any difference. This guy was a pilot so he was a rostered crew on other flights...
From what I gather the system is sort of built to accommodate commuting pilots. 4 day trips, F/D jump seats on all carriers etc.
Want to worry? FA poisoning the coffee**. Keeping jump seaters out patches a really small hole compared to what a motivated scheduled pilot or FA could do. Maybe interlock the fire system with a positive fire indicator unless both pilots turn their keys at the same time, like for ICBM launches.
**Or they serve them the fish. Otto can do only so much.
**Or they serve them the fish. Otto can do only so much.
Last edited by MechEngr; 24th Oct 2023 at 07:36.
A few thoughts on this horrific incident:
no point in stopping aircrew hitching jump seat lifts - they could crash an aircraft on their next ‘in the seat’ flight !
, the future - pilotless aircraft are safer - humans are the weak link?
Any suggestions
no point in stopping aircrew hitching jump seat lifts - they could crash an aircraft on their next ‘in the seat’ flight !
, the future - pilotless aircraft are safer - humans are the weak link?
Any suggestions
Moderator
This is obviously a very bizarre and incomprehensible incident to most of us. As others have suggested, banning jump seat commuters is not the answer. The only saving grace is this particular pilot was not actually flying the aircraft himself. The authorities are already adamant that it was not related to current world events or terrorist endeavours. It seems very likely that this was some kind of mental health episode - possibly assisted by the presence of illegal or prescription drugs. It is almost impossible to prevent this type of thing happening very occasionally, as pilots are ultimately human beings, with all the uncertainties that may bring.
I am not a Boeing pilot and have spent many years on the Airbus instead. Unlike the Boeing, on an Airbus it would be incredibly easy to shutdown both engines in flight in a couple of seconds. Although I much prefer Airbus overall, this is definitely an area where Boeing appear to have an added safety advantage that was very useful on this occasion!
I am not a Boeing pilot and have spent many years on the Airbus instead. Unlike the Boeing, on an Airbus it would be incredibly easy to shutdown both engines in flight in a couple of seconds. Although I much prefer Airbus overall, this is definitely an area where Boeing appear to have an added safety advantage that was very useful on this occasion!
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Does the E175 have a lockout on the handles unless there is an actual fire and the engines are running (like a Boeing)? i.e. is there also an override button for the handles?
TIA.
TIA.
Highly unlikely the FA’s will poison the coffee. Unless management is hiring total loons. FAs are all about keeping pax and crew safe. I’d say the 80% commute is close to accurate. These days of closing bases and having base in high cost of living places makes commuting desirable. Pilots and FAs get crash pads. Management might need to pay better attention to needs of crew.
Highly unlikely the FA’s will poison the coffee. Unless management is hiring total loons. FAs are all about keeping pax and crew safe. I’d say the 80% commute is close to accurate. These days of closing bases and having base in high cost of living places makes commuting desirable. Pilots and FAs get crash pads. Management might need to pay better attention to needs of crew.
Eitherway.. we are all human and being under constant workload and pressure to appease shareholders will just expose cracks in anybodys resilience.
Possibly being stressed, unfit to fly or having a meltdown is different from trying to kill colleagues and a planeload of passengers on a jump ride.
They have done so in the past (hiring a loon) see German Wings (and that was a pilot!) ... are FA's subjected to the same level of vetting and scrutiny that pilots are?
lonewolf
Humans are the weak link
it’s NOT how I feel or want but PERHAPS it is a fact?
PS I flew auto land approaches on Vulcans 55 years ago!
PPS still would need good looking 4 ringers up front to give the pax confidence BUT reading this thread would that be a risk ?
Humans are the weak link
it’s NOT how I feel or want but PERHAPS it is a fact?
PS I flew auto land approaches on Vulcans 55 years ago!
PPS still would need good looking 4 ringers up front to give the pax confidence BUT reading this thread would that be a risk ?
Last edited by mahogany bob; 24th Oct 2023 at 13:15.
Get AI into the cockpit. AI will solve everything. 
Is the result of pulling the fire handles on an EMB reversible in flight?
Because if it is this strikes me as being a particularly half-hearted attempt to destroy the aeroplane or to kill anyone as there would be more than ample time for restarts.
Doing so on short finals or just after take -off would be quite another matter.
Because if it is this strikes me as being a particularly half-hearted attempt to destroy the aeroplane or to kill anyone as there would be more than ample time for restarts.
Doing so on short finals or just after take -off would be quite another matter.