Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Jump seat pilot tries to shut down engines in-flight?

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Jump seat pilot tries to shut down engines in-flight?

Old 23rd Oct 2023, 21:58
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by KRviator
...when the FAA bans all but essential & rostered crew from the jumpseats.
Other than “doing something,” not sure what such action would accomplish (at least in this event). This guy was an off-duty Alaska Air pilot. Eventually he was going to be on the flight deck as a pilot. Would the outcome have been better with just the bad-guy pilot and a good-guy pilot and no jump seater?
BFSGrad is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2023, 23:13
  #22 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 84
Posts: 3,260
Received 21 Likes on 12 Posts
If he'd wanted to sleep, he'd have gone down the back. Having a bad reaction to taking something off the books might lower the severity of the multiple lists of charges X 83 that he seems to be faced with. Entering a dream state and physically acting it out is a reality - one of the side effects of some new antidepressants. This kind of surprise is exactly why aircrew shouldn't 'just try this or that'.

He wanted the police to meet the gate.
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2023, 23:30
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I would be willing to wager a paycheck that this guy had some sort of mental break, perhaps enhanced by the use of what may have been a perfectly legal prescription drug.
+1 to nobody taking any psychotropic without being honest with the prescribing physician as well as having a full grasp of potential side effects.
Wonderful that the flight was saved from disaster.
fdcg27 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2023, 23:50
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: France
Posts: 108
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by KRviator
Good thing everyone over there is getting pay rises. All crew who commute might soon be paying full fare SLF ticket prices to sit in back when the FAA bans all but essential & rostered crew from the jumpseats.
It wouldn't make any difference. This guy was a pilot so he was a rostered crew on other flights...
CVividasku is online now  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 02:43
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: New jersey
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
This is the guy
Chiefttp is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 03:45
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,223
Received 280 Likes on 154 Posts
Originally Posted by KRviator
Good thing everyone over there is getting pay rises. All crew who commute might soon be paying full fare SLF ticket prices to sit in back when the FAA bans all but essential & rostered crew from the jumpseats.
I’ve read something like 80% of US pilots commute to work by flight from another city. Banning F/Deck jumpseating for commuters may shut down the US airline industry overnight.

From what I gather the system is sort of built to accommodate commuting pilots. 4 day trips, F/D jump seats on all carriers etc.
dr dre is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 05:31
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 735
Received 113 Likes on 57 Posts
Want to worry? FA poisoning the coffee**. Keeping jump seaters out patches a really small hole compared to what a motivated scheduled pilot or FA could do. Maybe interlock the fire system with a positive fire indicator unless both pilots turn their keys at the same time, like for ICBM launches.

**Or they serve them the fish. Otto can do only so much.

Last edited by MechEngr; 24th Oct 2023 at 08:36.
MechEngr is online now  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 07:40
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bizarre. Sounds more like a cry for help than a determined attempt to take the aircraft down.
threep is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 08:04
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 140
Received 53 Likes on 22 Posts
A few thoughts on this horrific incident:

no point in stopping aircrew hitching jump seat lifts - they could crash an aircraft on their next ‘in the seat’ flight !

, the future - pilotless aircraft are safer - humans are the weak link?

Any suggestions
mahogany bob is online now  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 08:43
  #30 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Schloss Neuschwanstein
Posts: 4,192
Likes: 0
Received 28 Likes on 12 Posts
This is obviously a very bizarre and incomprehensible incident to most of us. As others have suggested, banning jump seat commuters is not the answer. The only saving grace is this particular pilot was not actually flying the aircraft himself. The authorities are already adamant that it was not related to current world events or terrorist endeavours. It seems very likely that this was some kind of mental health episode - possibly assisted by the presence of illegal or prescription drugs. It is almost impossible to prevent this type of thing happening very occasionally, as pilots are ultimately human beings, with all the uncertainties that may bring.

I am not a Boeing pilot and have spent many years on the Airbus instead. Unlike the Boeing, on an Airbus it would be incredibly easy to shutdown both engines in flight in a couple of seconds. Although I much prefer Airbus overall, this is definitely an area where Boeing appear to have an added safety advantage that was very useful on this occasion!
Count of Monte Bisto is online now  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 08:53
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does the E175 have a lockout on the handles unless there is an actual fire and the engines are running (like a Boeing)? i.e. is there also an override button for the handles?

TIA.
NSEU is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 08:59
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Aust
Posts: 393
Received 28 Likes on 13 Posts
I have maintained for some time now you have to be a little crazy to be involved in Commercial aviation in this day and age.
deja vu is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 09:40
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Highly unlikely the FA’s will poison the coffee. Unless management is hiring total loons. FAs are all about keeping pax and crew safe. I’d say the 80% commute is close to accurate. These days of closing bases and having base in high cost of living places makes commuting desirable. Pilots and FAs get crash pads. Management might need to pay better attention to needs of crew.
Dea Certe is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 11:14
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Dea Certe
Highly unlikely the FA’s will poison the coffee. Unless management is hiring total loons. FAs are all about keeping pax and crew safe. I’d say the 80% commute is close to accurate. These days of closing bases and having base in high cost of living places makes commuting desirable. Pilots and FAs get crash pads. Management might need to pay better attention to needs of crew.
well, you can say the same about the Flightdeck… and to be fair I have seen a wider personality range with FA than pilots, and have flown with some I wouldnt want to date let alone operate any machinery..

Eitherway.. we are all human and being under constant workload and pressure to appease shareholders will just expose cracks in anybodys resilience.
605carsten is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 11:36
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,046
Received 57 Likes on 34 Posts
Possibly being stressed, unfit to fly or having a meltdown is different from trying to kill colleagues and a planeload of passengers on a jump ride.
Less Hair is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 13:45
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,042
Received 250 Likes on 162 Posts
Originally Posted by mahogany bob
, the future - pilotless aircraft are safer - humans are the weak link?
Any suggestions
If that's how you feel, why are you posting on PPRuNe?
Originally Posted by Dea Certe
Highly unlikely the FA’s will poison the coffee. Unless management is hiring total loons.
They have done so in the past (hiring a loon) see German Wings (and that was a pilot!) ... are FA's subjected to the same level of vetting and scrutiny that pilots are?
Lonewolf_50 is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 14:01
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 140
Received 53 Likes on 22 Posts
lonewolf

Humans are the weak link

it’s NOT how I feel or want but PERHAPS it is a fact?

PS I flew auto land approaches on Vulcans 55 years ago!
PPS still would need good looking 4 ringers up front to give the pax confidence BUT reading this thread would that be a risk ?

Last edited by mahogany bob; 24th Oct 2023 at 14:15.
mahogany bob is online now  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 14:34
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NV (LAS)
Age: 75
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 12 Likes on 7 Posts
Get AI into the cockpit. AI will solve everything.


Originally Posted by mahogany bob
A few thoughts on this horrific incident:

no point in stopping aircrew hitching jump seat lifts - they could crash an aircraft on their next ‘in the seat’ flight !

, the future - pilotless aircraft are safer - humans are the weak link?

Any suggestions
IBMJunkman is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 14:38
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by mahogany bob
Humans are the weak link
Makes one wonder who (or what) designs, produces, programs, and maintains these safer pilotless aircraft.

By removing the pilot, you’ve removed just one of many humans in the loop.
BFSGrad is online now  
Old 24th Oct 2023, 15:32
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Central UK
Posts: 1,549
Received 98 Likes on 53 Posts
Is the result of pulling the fire handles on an EMB reversible in flight?
Because if it is this strikes me as being a particularly half-hearted attempt to destroy the aeroplane or to kill anyone as there would be more than ample time for restarts.
Doing so on short finals or just after take -off would be quite another matter.
meleagertoo is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.