NWS3501
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Say goodbye to your left hand small finger. Every ATCO in Europe knows NWS. And DavidReidUK, I don't know what software you are using (my guess some ancient stuff)....our FDPS has integrated DOC8585, so we don't have to learn all the three letter codes by heart/or look them up in paper version.
How does this work in terms of ATC, namely, separating other traffic from this flight ? Does ATC receive their Flight Plan and more or less know what's going on, or that's not the case ?
In areas with radar coverage it will be visible to ATC and therefore ATC can deviate other traffic from him, but once it gets in the Atlantic there are large areas where it will be out of radar coverage.
In areas with radar coverage it will be visible to ATC and therefore ATC can deviate other traffic from him, but once it gets in the Atlantic there are large areas where it will be out of radar coverage.
Allow me to respectfuly disagree...having the 8585 it doesnt mean automatically we are aware of everything there.
For example the "media" incident at JFK regarding the Alitalia versus Air France would have a better outcome if all the parts involved were aware of ITA vs AZA (colours, callsigns, 8585 Code).
For example the "media" incident at JFK regarding the Alitalia versus Air France would have a better outcome if all the parts involved were aware of ITA vs AZA (colours, callsigns, 8585 Code).
Wouldn't they have a flightplan showing the origin and destination ?
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Probably, because FR24 does seem to know where they are heading for.
However, having a flightplan, does not imply for certain, they are following the filed route. Or just deviate, and somewhere near the end, contact a friendly ATC with the message "here I am", blablabla.
However, having a flightplan, does not imply for certain, they are following the filed route. Or just deviate, and somewhere near the end, contact a friendly ATC with the message "here I am", blablabla.
Pegase Driver
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Everybody seems to either forget (or unaware for the Flight simulator "pilots" here ) that en route ATC is a service provider and not the police. Every aircraft regardless of nationality, origin or destination, will receive the same service, as I am separating it from you also . The next is the difference between Sovreign ( national ) airspace and international one ( read "High seas" ) which some of us tried to explain before . If an aircraft is not allowed in my national airspace, it is an issue for Air defense, not civil ATC.
For us those flights are normal and are being provided the same ATC service as any other aircraft in that airspace.
as to DOC8585, yes it is integrated in most ATC software nowadays. even in the Nassau FIR , who controlled that flight before being transferred to Miami FIR , but we use it sometimes to find the radio call sign , not to find out who owns the aircraft .
For us those flights are normal and are being provided the same ATC service as any other aircraft in that airspace.
as to DOC8585, yes it is integrated in most ATC software nowadays. even in the Nassau FIR , who controlled that flight before being transferred to Miami FIR , but we use it sometimes to find the radio call sign , not to find out who owns the aircraft .
I'm surprised, though, that the software doesn't also supply the controller (where necessary) with the corresponding operator callsign ("Telephony Designator" in ICAO-speak), for which Doc 8585 is also the authority. Books are so 20th Century.
On a similar theme was the Россия - Rossiya aircraft that took Sergei Lavrov to the G20 in Bali stolen, and would anyone in Bali have the cojones to impound it?
You raise an interesting hypothetical though. Any other time if one of the stolen aircraft turns up in Indonesia it's likely US pressure would successfully see it impounded. But during the G20 perhaps the desire to avoid a "scene" and disrupt the focus of the summit (any more than it already has been) would prevail.
Regardless, there isn't much prestige in parking your stolen A320 next to Air Force One, so they brought the Ilyushin.
Yes, operated by Rossiya SLO (Specialny Lyoutny Otryad) - the sub-fleet used for Government/VIP missions. All of the fleet apart from a couple of A319s are Russian-built types and I'd be surprised if any are owned by Western lessors.
Interestingly there is historical precedent for state aircraft being impounded, though only those of small African nations. Gabon failed to pay $8m for their cabin fitout and their 777 was consequently impounded at Orly. I think something similar happened to Congo.
