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250 kts 9th Nov 2022 08:50

NWS3501
 
I'm just watching this flight operating from Moscow to Varadero. Bearing in mind the flight transits Oceanic airspace,of which the majority of controlling authorities having imposed sanctions, how are the operators getting around this?

CW247 9th Nov 2022 09:38

Would also like to know how they can cross a "British Overseas Territory".


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a4f35313c3.jpg

radiosutch 9th Nov 2022 10:46

I'm told Russian flights still use HF ACARs on transoceanic flights and ordinary ACARs/VDL2 within range. Strange.

DaveReidUK 9th Nov 2022 10:54


Originally Posted by 250 kts (Post 11327756)
I'm just watching this flight operating from Moscow to Varadero. Bearing in mind the flight transits Oceanic airspace, of which the majority of controlling authorities having imposed sanctions, how are the operators getting around this?

Oceanic airspace does not belong to any country. There is no way that Russian flights can be banned from flying through it.

bobbytables 9th Nov 2022 13:12


Originally Posted by 250 kts (Post 11327756)
I'm just watching this flight operating from Moscow to Varadero. Bearing in mind the flight transits Oceanic airspace,of which the majority of controlling authorities having imposed sanctions, how are the operators getting around this?

Note that "controlling authorities" here doesn't imply any actual control or authority over the airspace. They're providing a service.

happybiker 9th Nov 2022 13:22


Originally Posted by CW247 (Post 11327781)
Would also like to know how they can cross a "British Overseas Territory".

Which overseas territory did they fly over?

ATC Watcher 9th Nov 2022 13:35

All Russian flights so far I have seen take very good care to navigante outside of the national (sovereign) airspace of the Countries they are banned, which extends only 12 NM from coast. the rest is international airspace where service is due (ICAO 1944 Convention, Article 12 )

CW247 9th Nov 2022 14:14


Originally Posted by happybiker (Post 11327905)

Originally Posted by CW247 (Post 11327781)
Would also like to know how they can cross a "British Overseas Territory".

Which overseas territory did they fly over?

Why Turks and Caicos, as can be seen!

Denti 9th Nov 2022 14:20

The sanctions have a few limited allowed sanctions. Just bother to read through the relevant notams next time at work.

Captivep 9th Nov 2022 15:24


Originally Posted by CW247 (Post 11327923)
Why Turks and Caicos, as can be seen!

It actually looks like it routed between Turks & Caicos and The Bahamas...

ATC Watcher 9th Nov 2022 16:20


Originally Posted by CW247 (Post 11327923)

Why Turks and Caicos, as can be seen!

No, they did not overfly their national airspace , but stayed in the international airspace around them .

DaveReidUK 9th Nov 2022 16:27


Originally Posted by Captivep (Post 11327957)
It actually looks like it routed between Turks & Caicos and The Bahamas...

Yes, Mayaguana (Bahamas) and Providenciales (Turks & Caicos) are approximately 35 nm apart.

So no infringement of either territory's airspace.

Magplug 9th Nov 2022 18:03

It is very fortunate that ETOPS is mostly a planning exercise.

The first time they divert the aircraft will most likely be impounded..... unless of course they divert to elsewhere in Cuba or some other banana state that has taken lots of Russian money.

WideScreen 9th Nov 2022 19:44


Originally Posted by Captivep (Post 11327957)
It actually looks like it routed between Turks & Caicos and The Bahamas...

On its way back to Moscow, it passed straight over Colonel Hill Settlement Island, part of The Bahamas. No jet scrambling to intercept ?????

DaveReidUK 9th Nov 2022 21:36


Originally Posted by WideScreen (Post 11328102)
No jet scrambling to intercept ?????

I'd guess that by the time the Bahamas Defence Force had decided whether it was best to scramble a King Air, Caravan or P68 in pursuit of the 777, it was probably too late. :O

JanetFlight 9th Nov 2022 22:48


Originally Posted by Magplug (Post 11328044)
some other banana state that has taken lots of Russian money.

Wich includes most of EU "banana countries" (your words, not mine), as well as USA itself ;)

bobbytables 10th Nov 2022 01:00


Originally Posted by Magplug (Post 11328044)
It is very fortunate that ETOPS is mostly a planning exercise.

The first time they divert the aircraft will most likely be impounded..... unless of course they divert to elsewhere in Cuba or some other banana state that has taken lots of Russian money.

The friendliness of diversion airports will obviously have been considered when planning. If they were stupid enough to use one stolen from the lessors then it would be easily impounded, but an aircraft genuinely owned by a Russian entity would be unlikely to be impounded. The more likely issues would be related to refusal to deliver fuel and other needed services due to sanctions.

zerograv 11th Nov 2022 19:24


Originally Posted by ATC Watcher (Post 11327910)
All Russian flights so far I have seen take very good care to navigante outside of the national (sovereign) airspace of the Countries they are banned, which extends only 12 NM from coast. the rest is international airspace where service is due (ICAO 1944 Convention, Article 12 )

How does this work in terms of ATC, namely, separating other traffic from this flight ? Does ATC receive their Flight Plan and more or less know what's going on, or that's not the case ?
In areas with radar coverage it will be visible to ATC and therefore ATC can deviate other traffic from him, but once it gets in the Atlantic there are large areas where it will be out of radar coverage.

WideScreen 11th Nov 2022 19:53


Originally Posted by zerograv (Post 11329301)
How does this work in terms of ATC, namely, separating other traffic from this flight ? Does ATC receive their Flight Plan and more or less know what's going on, or that's not the case ?
In areas with radar coverage it will be visible to ATC and therefore ATC can deviate other traffic from him, but once it gets in the Atlantic there are large areas where it will be out of radar coverage.

When flying at non-standard FL outside the normal IFR corridors, reduce crossing corridor sections where regular level changes may happen and don't cross the IFR corridors at/near intersections, the chance to hit "something" is pretty small. Much smaller than getting hit by something "war" related in Ukraine.

And for ETOPS, the same applies, even without being ETOPS certified, the chances are pretty low you'll need the ETOPS items.

Everything around ETOPS & IFR rulings allowed to be sacrificed to get war stuff from all over the world to win the war with Ukraine. Not sure, IF this is applicable to the named flight.......

JanetFlight 11th Nov 2022 20:14


Originally Posted by zerograv (Post 11329301)
How does this work in terms of ATC, namely, separating other traffic from this flight ?

I bet my left hand small finger that 90% of ATC'ers do not know that the icao code NWS belongs to a russian carrier except those who have some kind of planespotter and aviation passion inside them...my humble two cents.


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