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Schengen given up

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Schengen given up

Old 3rd Nov 2022, 22:24
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
Problem is Gib was never really part of the Eu even when the UK was IIRC - and of course it has a history all of it's own

You can't use it as a general Schengen example I'm afarid
From Wikipedia:-
Until 2020 Gibraltar was part of the European Union, having joined the European Community (the forerunner to the European Union) through European Communities Act 1972 (UK), which gave effect to the Treaty of Accession 1972, as a dependent territory of the United Kingdom.

In 2016 95.91% of Gibraltar residents voted to remain in the EU, therefore you can't vote to remain in something if you are not already a part of it
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 23:22
  #22 (permalink)  
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The usual conflating of Schengen and the EU, alas. The UK was in the EU but never in Schengen, which was freely open borders.

With such controls reintroduced at short notice "for the duration", I wonder where EU countries get the border control staff from. The UK Border Agency seems to have the most enormous difficulty in providing even standard levels of staffing to avoid multi-hour queues (Stansted at midnight in September, with flight levels known all year, looking at you). Yet apparently in mainland Europe they can provide this extra staffing without issue.
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 23:36
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You seem to misunderstand the link you provided. There is no plan to check everyone crossing internal borders. But border-crossing traffic CAN be checked. It does not even need to happen right at the border. If the German border control suspects illegal crossings and activities they do it inland, a few kilometers past the border.

Anyway, why would Schengen countries need a lot of staff at airports? Most Schengen travelers are EU citizens and can use e-gates.
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 23:52
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Red face

Originally Posted by Less Hair
This Tuesday I crossed the german-dutch and then the dutch-belgian border at 100 km/h. No border control nobody got pulled over including on the way back. First hand info.
Less Hair, you seem to be being a bit difficult, awkward, or pedantic. Of course they can't stop every car crossing the border. My point is black Merc S classes or V class vans with pilots seem to be the targets, and they're targeting air crew crossing borders in Europe who shouldn't be, and/or don't have EU passports. The Brits seem to be getting particularly interrogated.

You blasting across at a very brave 100kph for cheap fuel or a supermarket shop aren't exactly the target demographic.
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 01:49
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Originally Posted by Flying Clog
Less Hair, you seem to be being a bit difficult, awkward, or pedantic. Of course they can't stop every car crossing the border. My point is black Merc S classes or V class vans with pilots seem to be the targets, and they're targeting air crew crossing borders in Europe who shouldn't be, and/or don't have EU passports. The Brits seem to be getting particularly interrogated.

You blasting across at a very brave 100kph for cheap fuel or a supermarket shop aren't exactly the target demographic.
simply not true Cloggy. Just ask yourself: why would they specifically target aircrew? What makes us so special that they will use 4-6 FTE for a few slightly overweight freightdoggies?

like I said: I cross that border very often! And very very seldom do I see police, marechaussee or customs.
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 06:28
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His speeding might be the problem not Schengen?
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 07:24
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by nomilk
You seem to misunderstand the link you provided. There is no plan to check everyone crossing internal borders. But border-crossing traffic CAN be checked. It does not even need to happen right at the border. If the German border control suspects illegal crossings and activities they do it inland, a few kilometers past the border..
French authorities do similar down here, just north of the Pyrenees .. there are couple of choke/convergence points in the road network where they regularly set up controls that are the best part of 20-30 kilometres plus inside France.. allows them to keep on eye out for illegal crossings etc from Spain and are also placed so they can catch those planning to shift umpteen tonnes of cigarettes in from Andorra.

FWIW there's also a watch kept on the same border for foot traffic using helicopter and the odd foot patrol..

https://actu.fr/societe/hautes-pyren..._46934217.html
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 11:50
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Originally Posted by WHBM
I was actually hopeful to consider, rather than getting into yet another B****t for/against slanging match, what the implications are for airports, where many have dismantled border control equipment for Schengen arrivals, and segregated these from non-Schengen ones, when such checks are reinstated. Likewise for departures within Schengen, where full visa etc checks may be required rather than just ID checks.
What else did you expect after posting a plain wrong headline?
Schengen is alive and well, some additional checks, as allowed by the agreement, are taking place at some airports. I travel regularly through some of these airports, the only thing I noticed is occasionally 5-10 minutes extra wait and/or 50m extra walk. End of story.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 07:56
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Originally Posted by WHBM
The usual conflating of Schengen and the EU, alas. The UK was in the EU but never in Schengen, which was freely open borders.

With such controls reintroduced at short notice "for the duration", I wonder where EU countries get the border control staff from. The UK Border Agency seems to have the most enormous difficulty in providing even standard levels of staffing to avoid multi-hour queues (Stansted at midnight in September, with flight levels known all year, looking at you). Yet apparently in mainland Europe they can provide this extra staffing without issue.

Schengen treaty was never meant to abandon border control - it was merely shifted from border crossings. Many new dedicated police stations sprung up due to this shift throughout the Schengen countries and police officers there are trained and equipped to do border checks - and they do it regularly, only not at the borders but inlands and checks are targeted on specific locations, vehicles, etc.... based on intelligence. And they can move swiftly to border crossings, if necessary. The main thing of Schengen is centralised information system. I can`t go into details, but I hope you get the picture.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 09:41
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Member states can reinstate limited border controls whenever necessary, like during terror defence or now with a new wave of refugees coming. This is why they had to formally announce recent (limited) controls.
Most of the controls were moved to hinterland patrols and to Schengen area outer border surveillance. I remember at French airports, their airport police reserve staff did most of the interim controls.
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Old 8th Nov 2022, 10:41
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Schengen has been given up. The EU is about to collapse. So is the Euro. Been in the news for 10+ years, so must be true !
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Old 10th Nov 2022, 11:40
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
This Tuesday I crossed the german-dutch and then the dutch-belgian border at 100 km/h. No border control nobody got pulled over including on the way back. First hand info.
If you cross from Belgium to France on the E40 you will be diverted off the motorway through a checkpoint. Been like that for a couple of years now. For the first year in was actually manned. - but recently never. Just an annoyance. Going the other way there is no restriction. You just need to remember to slow down from 130kph to 120 kph

The most significant non-Schengen behaviour I experienced however is travelling by train from Austria (Salzburg) back into Germany. German police board and check all ID. Happened twice now so not just a one-off. You also need to don your Covid mask, but I guess that's a separate issue. Again, nothing in the other direction. All seems very asymmetric, so I assume has something to do with migrant flows rather than anything else.
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Old 10th Nov 2022, 11:55
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That is just the federal state of Bavaria doing things his own way - having a reputation for this. In fact they restarted autobahn checkpoints some time ago to fight illegal immigration causing huge traffic jams. However this is not a federal policy, while having to wear masks on long range trains is.
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Old 10th Nov 2022, 20:52
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"while having to wear masks on long range trains"

As far as I knw masks must be worn on ALL public transport in Germany. A few weeks ago we had to wear masks on an outdoors chairlift there.
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Old 11th Nov 2022, 08:44
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Long distance trains are regulated by the federal government, commuter trains by the local Lšnder government.
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Old 11th Nov 2022, 22:45
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Originally Posted by Dont Hang Up
The most significant non-Schengen behaviour I experienced however is travelling by train from Austria (Salzburg) back into Germany. German police board and check all ID. Happened twice now so not just a one-off. You also need to don your Covid mask, but I guess that's a separate issue. Again, nothing in the other direction. All seems very asymmetric, so I assume has something to do with migrant flows rather than anything else.
That is indeed a major annoyance and in fact a clear Schengen violation, which has lead to some headaches in Berlin as Austria is not at all happy about it. Due to the federal structure of Germany the state of Bavaria does its own thing, but cannot legally implement a Schengen exception, that can only be done by the federal government which does not support it for that border. Both the previous Merkel one as well as the current Scholz administration, I believe there is a case against Bavaria about that at the ECJ.

The Mask is a separate issue though.
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Old 13th Nov 2022, 20:54
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Again those controls are done by Bayerische Grenzpolizei by order of the local state government of Bavaria. They are playing games with Austria about borders after Austria invented fees for their autobahn use while driving for free in Germany and closed long distance roads used as bypasses within Austria.
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Old 14th Nov 2022, 11:29
  #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Less Hair
They are playing games with Austria about borders after Austria invented fees for their autobahn use while driving for free in Germany and closed long distance roads used as bypasses within Austria.
What is happening in Bayern recently has also to do with the ego of their current leader, now in the opposition and turning populist to score some points with his conservative electorate.
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Old 14th Nov 2022, 15:34
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There is a new friction point just set up today, or yesterday, at the border between Northern Italy and France. News of delays as France is making thorough inspections to people coming from Italy.
It seems that France is very upset with Italy for the fact that it recently volunteered to accept 230 migrants that the Ocean Viking was hoping to disembark in Italy.
At the end of the day, so far during this year of 2022, Italy has only accepted 86000 migrants in its ports, therefore, it is difficult for the French government to understand why Italy refused those 230 migrants that went to France.

Last edited by zerograv; 14th Nov 2022 at 15:40. Reason: grammar
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