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WIZZ AIR Skiathos vid

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WIZZ AIR Skiathos vid

Old 12th Aug 2022, 12:22
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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You are more likely to crash because of landing too short than not being able to brake in time at the end.
I keep reading/hearing about overruns all the time, some quite nasty. I know of only the occasional undershoot. I don't know where you get this from??
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 12:26
  #102 (permalink)  

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PAPI don't provide guidance beacuse the midday sun floodlights them or they are notam'd U/S.

The advisory lateral and vertical guidance derived from RWY THR and calculated as a 4.5 mile fix at 1500' on the extended centerline is a valuable tool and very easy to use properly, without upsetting any gods of visual manouvering. Repeated references to RNAV + armchair uncover insufficient understanding of available technology and their use from your side, safetypee.

At JSI, most of the time it is the best tool to guide the plane to a point from which standard training and skill can take over. If you think pilots can eyeball A320 size CAT loosely unhinged in the 4D airspace somewhere between 3-9 NM in a sector 120-30 degrees offset from the final course - that's an invitation to a world of whole SMS review at the operator.

Or perphaps I couldn't decode the your message properly.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 12:26
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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As EGJJ got a mention in the context of runway length, I do recall a nervous moment in 2020 as SLF on a BA A320. We were still airborne as the Fire station came into view!

Unsurprisingly the landing roll went all the way to the end, but stopped before the cliff!

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Old 12th Aug 2022, 12:47
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Probably going back 10 years, but my memory of frequent JSI landings is that the PAPI's were hard to see in strong sunlight and often unavailable. They were once NOTAMed u/s for a whole summer. My company thought we'd go in there in the dark with no PAPI's if running late. I wasn't so sure about that idea!
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 12:47
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
As EGJJ got a mention in the context of runway length, I do recall a nervous moment in 2020 as SLF on a BA A320. We were still airborne as the Fire station came into view!

Unsurprisingly the landing roll went all the way to the end, but stopped before the cliff!

The white 'must land by' lights inset into the runway at LCY serve to avoid this happening. Perhaps they should be installed at all airfields with short runways?
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 13:52
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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I appreciate it appears to be a silly statement but let's keep this in context. At Skiathos if you did your perf calcs and stopping was assured. And if you crossed the threshold at 50ft, you have nothing to fear. If you don't trust the perf, and you try to do something silly like cross the threshold at 10ft, it will be another story.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 13:58
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Smooth Airperator View Post
I appreciate it appears to be a silly statement but let's keep this in context. At Skiathos if you did your perf calcs and stopping was assured. And if you crossed the threshold at 50ft, you have nothing to fear. If you don't trust the perf, and you try to do something silly like cross the threshold at 10ft, it will be another story.
That's far from silly, it's spot on. Not just Skiathos, cross the threshold at 50' everywhere. Good habits will last throughout your flying career.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 14:18
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Confusious View Post
That's far from silly, it's spot on. Not just Skiathos, cross the threshold at 50' everywhere. Good habits will last throughout your flying career.
Completely agree with both of you.
If you dont trust your ability to land within the generous allowances of transport category airplane performance calculations. With the option to abort the landing at any time you think you won't stop within the available distance.
Why would you trust your ability to judge your approach within a few feet of the airport perimeter?

Everyone can mess up an approach myself included, but I dont understand why commercial pilots would intentionally undershoot the standard approach path.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 16:31
  #109 (permalink)  

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Until showed otherwise, the latest information on this thread is that A321 does not meet the standard RLD at JSI.
Does not change the fact that correct landing is to be achieved with 3 deg profile and having RA call 30 over the numbers.

Stll think it was not showboating but a crew who scared themselves out of competence for the moment. And not trained well for a complex scenario such as the one over there, not overly demanding, just complex.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 16:45
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Its curious...when this thread was created i would swear it would be moved to some kind of spotters or spectators balcony PPRuNe division...i was fully wrong...
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 17:01
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by JanetFlight View Post
Its curious...when this thread was created i would swear it would be moved to some kind of spotters or spectators balcony PPRuNe division...
As a warning to be careful, you mean?

Waste of time.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 17:01
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What has not been discussed here is the normal touchdown markers at 1000ft in are in fact at 500ft. After many landings here, a copilot who had never been before announced “a Playmobil runway” …. ?? What he meant was that coming from MAN with a 45m wide and 10000 ft long runway, JSI with its half sized (ish) proportions including touch down markers and consequently PAPI position, it looks exactly the same from a distance. However, there is a huge ground rush at the end!

So, at JSI, the aircraft should/will be much lower than at a standard location. This one was just on/outside the outer limits of normality. Had it been the equivalent high, if they had not balked, they probably would not have stopped before the very tight turning circle at the end.

Me
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 17:08
  #113 (permalink)  

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Thank you for proving all my salient points.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 17:08
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Until showed otherwise, the latest information on this thread is that A321 does not meet the standard RLD at JSI.
Is this confirmed? There are things like revised ground spoiler logic (if I recall correctly) or some other software improvements offered by Airbus as an upgrade which change (=shorten) the landing distance. It is hard to imagine that a company would put an aircraft on a route that does not meet dispatch requirements.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 17:14
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Until showed otherwise, the latest information on this thread is that A321 does not meet the standard RLD at JSI.
Does not change the fact that correct landing is to be achieved with 3 deg profile and having RA call 30 over the numbers.

Stll think it was not showboating but a crew who scared themselves out of competence for the moment. And not trained well for a complex scenario such as the one over there, not overly demanding, just complex.
IF the A321 does not meet the standard RLD at JSI then any pilot would be within their rights as a professional to refuse to fly into there.

Totally agree that it was unlikely to be showboating, but if they had scared themselves then why did PNF not call Go-Around? I don't have a clue how Wizz train their pilots or the quality of their training, but the both pilots had been signed off to operate into there.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 17:20
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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The RLD for still air for an 72,400kg Landing Mass A321 SL (CEO) is 1570m (The length of RW01) - Still Air/1013/RW01/Dry.
That gives a payload of (72.4 - 3.0 Fuel - 48.3 DOW) of 21.1T. That's quite a substantial load, in excess of 220 pax (e.g. 95M/95F/30C/0I- 3000 bags is 19.1T).
You don't have to take a full A321 in there from a rotation point of view.

Rw19 RLD Max Mass - 76.1T. Cross-over point 2kts TL-Rw19 HD-RW01, at about 73.0 tons

Just a performance remark.

Getting out without restriction is dependent on destination.

Take-off is about 78-78.8T in similar conditions.

Last edited by Down Three Greens; 12th Aug 2022 at 18:27. Reason: Format
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 18:15
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Cowboy CEO
Cowboy Pilots going the extra mile
Cowboy company
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 19:00
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Originally Posted by luvly jubbly View Post
Not sure if posted previously but your thoughts on this insanity?

WIZZ AIR SKIATHOS - Daily Record

My triple would have left its tyres in the sea….
WIZZ AIR SKIATHOS VIDEO
Obviously a more skilled pilot than you.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 19:09
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HURZ View Post
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Originally Posted by inbalance View Post
Obviously a more skilled pilot than you.
And first prize for the most constructive contribution goes to......

Last edited by Confusious; 12th Aug 2022 at 19:42.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 19:19
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Not a professional. Should that bit of beach be open to the public? If that aircraft had gone-around late, could there be blast injury to the beach people?
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