UK ATC worst in Europe ?
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UK ATC worst in Europe ?
Well thanks Mr Sunday Times for your shallow investigation into this subject. You made us all feel it was worth putting in that last shift on another bad day !!!
UK ATC Worst in Europe
Sunday Times - August 25:
Insight: Air traffic control in UK worst in Europe
BRITAIN’S new £620m air traffic control centre has been branded the worst in Europe, causing more than half of all air traffic hold-ups.
An official report by Eurocontrol, which manages European air space, shows the centre is responsible for more delays than all the other 30 national air traffic agencies put together.
It also emerged this weekend that despite the huge investment in technology, passengers are suffering record delays even though the centre, at Swanwick in Hampshire, is handling fewer planes than the old “low tech” system it replaced.
There has been a doubling in the level of delays during this summer’s peak holiday season compared with the same period last year. The failings have also led Eurocontrol to issue a number of warnings to foreign pilots to avoid UK air space unless they have to land in Britain. At the worst times this summer Britons have been three times more likely to be delayed when flying to Mediterranean destinations than German or French travellers. At Gatwick 35% of planes were delayed, with more than 4,000 flights having an average delay of 20 minutes.
The revelations are certain to reignite the row over the centre. John Prescott and Stephen Byers, then transport secretary, pressed ahead with the launch of the system in January and pushed through part-privatisation of the National Air Traffic Services (Nats) despite opposition from backbench Labour MPs.
The poor performance of the centre in its first six months of operation is also a serious setback for Nats, which failed to remove all of the system flaws or ensure there were enough controllers to run it before it opened.
---------------------------------
Insight: Hi-tech shambles of Britain’s airspace
IT HAS been a disaster more than 10 years in the making. Britain’s new air traffic control centre has turned the country’s airspace into the bottleneck of Europe..........
The most damaging indictment is provided by Eurocontrol, the agency that manages airspace capacity. John Byrom, of Eurocontrol, said the UK had accounted for 51% of air traffic delays in Europe since January, compared with less than 15% for the whole of 2001.
In July, the peak holiday month, a 26-page document from Eurocontrol shows that 43% of air traffic delays were caused by Britain..................
The problems are so severe that Eurocontrol has issued bulletins advising pilots to avoid Britain at the worst periods. One on July 25 said: “If routes can be found avoiding UK airspace . . . then rerouting is strongly recommended.”........................
UK ATC Worst in Europe
Sunday Times - August 25:
Insight: Air traffic control in UK worst in Europe
BRITAIN’S new £620m air traffic control centre has been branded the worst in Europe, causing more than half of all air traffic hold-ups.
An official report by Eurocontrol, which manages European air space, shows the centre is responsible for more delays than all the other 30 national air traffic agencies put together.
It also emerged this weekend that despite the huge investment in technology, passengers are suffering record delays even though the centre, at Swanwick in Hampshire, is handling fewer planes than the old “low tech” system it replaced.
There has been a doubling in the level of delays during this summer’s peak holiday season compared with the same period last year. The failings have also led Eurocontrol to issue a number of warnings to foreign pilots to avoid UK air space unless they have to land in Britain. At the worst times this summer Britons have been three times more likely to be delayed when flying to Mediterranean destinations than German or French travellers. At Gatwick 35% of planes were delayed, with more than 4,000 flights having an average delay of 20 minutes.
The revelations are certain to reignite the row over the centre. John Prescott and Stephen Byers, then transport secretary, pressed ahead with the launch of the system in January and pushed through part-privatisation of the National Air Traffic Services (Nats) despite opposition from backbench Labour MPs.
The poor performance of the centre in its first six months of operation is also a serious setback for Nats, which failed to remove all of the system flaws or ensure there were enough controllers to run it before it opened.
---------------------------------
Insight: Hi-tech shambles of Britain’s airspace
IT HAS been a disaster more than 10 years in the making. Britain’s new air traffic control centre has turned the country’s airspace into the bottleneck of Europe..........
The most damaging indictment is provided by Eurocontrol, the agency that manages airspace capacity. John Byrom, of Eurocontrol, said the UK had accounted for 51% of air traffic delays in Europe since January, compared with less than 15% for the whole of 2001.
In July, the peak holiday month, a 26-page document from Eurocontrol shows that 43% of air traffic delays were caused by Britain..................
The problems are so severe that Eurocontrol has issued bulletins advising pilots to avoid Britain at the worst periods. One on July 25 said: “If routes can be found avoiding UK airspace . . . then rerouting is strongly recommended.”........................
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Don't take the report personally. I'm sure that ALL pilots and most of the general public do appreciate that last shift on a bad day. In my opinion, you guys and gals are amongst the best in the world - if not, the best. However, I don't think the report is having a go at you. It reads to me that the new centre at Swanwick is the subject of this report and not the people who are trying to make it work!
I'm not entirely sure why the new centre has had more than it's share of problems - be it government, management, technical etc, but rest assured, there is no animosity to the workers!!!!
Keep smiling - it can only get better "cheerio!"
BALOO
I'm not entirely sure why the new centre has had more than it's share of problems - be it government, management, technical etc, but rest assured, there is no animosity to the workers!!!!
Keep smiling - it can only get better "cheerio!"
BALOO
Cobblers !
They are underpaid, under-manned and over stretched.
And if nothing else they do speak the International language
of the air which is more than can be said for certain others in
Europe.
Good on you guys - I know you can't always give us that
direct we ask for or that slot extension we need but I'm darn
sure that you do your very best at all times.
They are underpaid, under-manned and over stretched.
And if nothing else they do speak the International language
of the air which is more than can be said for certain others in
Europe.
Good on you guys - I know you can't always give us that
direct we ask for or that slot extension we need but I'm darn
sure that you do your very best at all times.
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It is an absolute fact, the best sound in the world isbeing asked to contact 'London Control'. There is no doubt you can not get cleaned up, high speed and the hell out of some of our 'neighbours' airspace' fast enough.
UK ATC we think your great!!
UK ATC we think your great!!
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Headlines are what make the world interested in reading nonsense. UK ATC provides a most safe and efficient service, and here I mean the men and women behind the voices we love to hear day by day.
When introducing new procedures, new equipment, new technology, it always has been some kind of a challenge for everyone.
I hope that all can remember the introduction of the B757 which was the cause for plenty of delays as pilots have been trained to slow down the aeroplanes early enough thus spoiling the approach sequence for everyone else...
I hope that everyone can remember the introduction of heavy jets which was the cause for plenty of delays as the other pilots had to accept a higher separation...
I hope that everyone can remember the introduction of the RVSM airspace...
The list continous and none of them was called unsafe or "worst" invention.
All has to settle, the manpower calls for adjustment, all will improve.
The amount of air-traffic originating in the UK, heading to or over the UK has increased dramatically and no one has taken this into account.
It is easy to complain, it takes a lot of skill and dedication to perform like we see and hear it everyday.
When introducing new procedures, new equipment, new technology, it always has been some kind of a challenge for everyone.
I hope that all can remember the introduction of the B757 which was the cause for plenty of delays as pilots have been trained to slow down the aeroplanes early enough thus spoiling the approach sequence for everyone else...
I hope that everyone can remember the introduction of heavy jets which was the cause for plenty of delays as the other pilots had to accept a higher separation...
I hope that everyone can remember the introduction of the RVSM airspace...
The list continous and none of them was called unsafe or "worst" invention.
All has to settle, the manpower calls for adjustment, all will improve.
The amount of air-traffic originating in the UK, heading to or over the UK has increased dramatically and no one has taken this into account.
It is easy to complain, it takes a lot of skill and dedication to perform like we see and hear it everyday.
Beamer ,
"And if nothing else they do speak the International language
of the air which is more than can be said for certain others in
Europe."
What a prattish statement. I wonder how the likes of you would react if ICAO decreed that French or Spanish should be the new international language and be spoken in the UK.
ALL foreign controllers speak English with English speaking pilots. And by the way, many of my European colleagues have a better command of the English language than some British ATC and flightcrew people I know.
"And if nothing else they do speak the International language
of the air which is more than can be said for certain others in
Europe."
What a prattish statement. I wonder how the likes of you would react if ICAO decreed that French or Spanish should be the new international language and be spoken in the UK.
ALL foreign controllers speak English with English speaking pilots. And by the way, many of my European colleagues have a better command of the English language than some British ATC and flightcrew people I know.
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The Sunday Times has really gone downhill in the quality of
its reporting over the past ten years. Their journo's seem
to be operating from 'Distort the truth with statistics 101'
nowadays.
It would have been interesting to compare the volume
of problems with the relative volume of traffic going through
UK Airspace compared with that of the rest of Europe.
But I dare say that might not be quite such a good story.
-- Andrew
its reporting over the past ten years. Their journo's seem
to be operating from 'Distort the truth with statistics 101'
nowadays.
It would have been interesting to compare the volume
of problems with the relative volume of traffic going through
UK Airspace compared with that of the rest of Europe.
But I dare say that might not be quite such a good story.
-- Andrew
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I read it as the 'centre' is a pile of crap rather than the actual people at the sharp end trying to use the systems. Is that not what the article says?
We all want to have greeat confidence in the place we work, even those for certain Irish and British airlines that attract some, err, scorn, but ...
Apologies if I've managed to misread or mis some nuances.
We all want to have greeat confidence in the place we work, even those for certain Irish and British airlines that attract some, err, scorn, but ...
Apologies if I've managed to misread or mis some nuances.
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UK ATC worst in Europe ?
I can not judge about the efficiency of the computersystems or understaffing etcetera, but for as far as ´over the radio´ is concerned I think the UK ATC is providing an excellent service.
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Worst in Europe? Don't really think so, BUT certainly NOT the "best" either.
One need only look just slightly further east for the best...Netherlands.
Germany number two...UK a distant third, about on par with the French, IMHO.
One need only look just slightly further east for the best...Netherlands.
Germany number two...UK a distant third, about on par with the French, IMHO.
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Especially Maastricht, Avman. Best in the business IMHO, Amsterdam also.
Sad to say, even Spain is now sometimes better than the UK.
Now least some think that I am "dumping" on the UK (has been known to happen ) but it does seem that the new hardware is letting the guys down.
Beancounters running the show?
IF so, very bad news indeed.
Sad to say, even Spain is now sometimes better than the UK.
Now least some think that I am "dumping" on the UK (has been known to happen
) but it does seem that the new hardware is letting the guys down.Beancounters running the show?
IF so, very bad news indeed.
Last edited by 411A; 26th Aug 2002 at 21:02.
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Thanks for the supportive replies. It gets more difficult each day when you know you are doing your best and what was once world renowned is now the joke of cheap journalism.
We might not get you there the quickest anymore but sure as hell we will do our best to keep you safe.
We might not get you there the quickest anymore but sure as hell we will do our best to keep you safe.
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411A I do not agree. Amsterdam (Schipol) ATC are not the best in my experience.
Often snotty, short tempered and argumentative, and frequently lacking any understanding of the capabilities of the aircraft they are controlling. For instance...being vectored at 90deg angle toward the NDB RW19R (ILS off the air), then 1nm from overhead the beacon being told 'you are cleared NDB approach 19R contact tower....' What kind of rubbish is that?
I've never found LHR controllers to be anything less than excellent. LATCC likewise.
Maastricht are usually good...but then they have a lot of Irish guys keeping the dutch heads on straight.
Often snotty, short tempered and argumentative, and frequently lacking any understanding of the capabilities of the aircraft they are controlling. For instance...being vectored at 90deg angle toward the NDB RW19R (ILS off the air), then 1nm from overhead the beacon being told 'you are cleared NDB approach 19R contact tower....' What kind of rubbish is that?
I've never found LHR controllers to be anything less than excellent. LATCC likewise.
Maastricht are usually good...but then they have a lot of Irish guys keeping the dutch heads on straight.