Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Ukraine and associated airspace

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Ukraine and associated airspace

Old 27th Feb 2022, 17:38
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: washington dc
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And Flightradar claims Aeroflot 124 is diverting back to Moscow. Although not at all clear how it will get there with all the Nordic airspace also closed
voyageur9 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 18:11
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Uk
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by voyageur9 View Post
And Flightradar claims Aeroflot 124 is diverting back to Moscow. Although not at all clear how it will get there with all the Nordic airspace also closed
Countries are not going to let aircraft crash. Planes in the air will be allowed back home. Just no new flights plans will be allowed from now.
Flyhighfirst is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 18:17
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ex-EGLL View Post
Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
Canada has also just announced an airspace ban for Russian aircraft
Would that include the Ocean, or is that "ICAO protected"?
"News release February 27, 2022 Ottawa"
.
"The Government of Canada is prohibiting the operation of Russian-owned, chartered or operated aircraft in Canadian airspace, including in the airspace above Canada’s territorial waters."
.
Previously in articles about airspace closures, there were comments about exceptions to be made for diplomatic missions and the like. What I am reading presently makes no mention of exceptions.

Closing airspace in peace time is one thing. Enforcing closure during a war where Russia is the aggressor is something else again. Someone lay out for me the probable sequence of escalations in the event of an intrusion ...

Now then, financial sanctions bear the prospect of being a different matter altogether:
.
Russia central bank urges calm amid cash run fears
By Dearbail Jordan
BBC News 2022.02.27

Russia's central bank said that customers of sanctioned banks would be unable to use their bank cards outside Russia. It also said it will be "impossible" to use cards issued by sanctioned banks for Google Pay or Apple Pay.
.
"банковская карта отклонена !"
EddyCurr is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 18:17
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: washington dc
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst View Post
Countries are not going to let aircraft crash. Planes in the air will be allowed back home. Just no new flights plans will be allowed from now.
I understand. But what happens to Aeroflot flights that landed today in Cancun and Havana. Are they stuck there? Or do they get a pass back to Moscow.
voyageur9 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 18:24
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: BHX LXR ASW
Posts: 2,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Will Sleepy Joe ban all Russian traffic as well? Canada has!
crewmeal is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 18:36
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,415
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by EddyCurr View Post
Someone lay out for me the probable sequence of escalations in the event of an intrusion ...
No Russian civilian aircraft will intentionally enter closed airspace, so the question is academic.


DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 18:54
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Uk
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by voyageur9 View Post
I understand. But what happens to Aeroflot flights that landed today in Cancun and Havana. Are they stuck there? Or do they get a pass back to Moscow.
Also what about Russian nationals stuck overseas? Will repatriation be allowed or will they have to get home via none closed airspace routes?

At least whilst abroad they will be able to see more of the true reasons for their sanctions rather than putin controlled 'news' at home.
Yeehaw22 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 19:49
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 967
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Devil

Originally Posted by Yeehaw22 View Post
abroad they will be able to see more of the true reasons for their sanctions rather than putin controlled 'news' at home.
...with their credit cards out of use a pure pleasure.
eu01 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 20:01
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Uk
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by voyageur9 View Post
I understand. But what happens to Aeroflot flights that landed today in Cancun and Havana. Are they stuck there? Or do they get a pass back to Moscow.
If they leave without pax they should be able to make a route back into Russian airspace without any incursions into closed airspace.

As for those Russian citizens stranded. They can make their own way to
as close as possible and then go
overland?
Flyhighfirst is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 20:17
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Where it is comfortable...
Age: 58
Posts: 856
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst View Post
If they leave without pax they should be able to make a route back into Russian airspace without any incursions into closed airspace.
They can easily make it back even with pax taking the long route via North Africa/ME with a technical stop somewhere.
andrasz is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 20:51
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: France
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It's interesting to observe the AFL flights between KGD/Kaliningrad and Russia on FR24. Because of the different bans, they can't fly in the forbiden FIRs and so they fly ON the FIRs limits until they reach the good Russian airspace. EL AL does exactly the same by flying on the FIR boundary between Egypt and Saudi Arabia when they go to the East.
Squawk_ident is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 21:41
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: washington dc
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Both AFL157 Punta Cana to SVO and AFL111 MIA-SVO are in the air. Both have filed flight plans that enter Canadian airspace. Both flights could (depending on fuel loaded) avoid Canadian airspace -- but not EU and Nordic.

It will be interesting to see if "with immediate effect" actually means AFL flights get a one-way free pass back to Putinland

voyageur9 is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 21:51
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: SW1A 2AA
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I see Aeroflot overflying Turkey. As a NATO member I would like to see the Turks offer the same hospitality to all Russian owned/operated aircraft as the rest of NATO. Ground their bloody fleet so they can only fly domestic routes until the spares inventory runs out.
Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP is online now  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 21:53
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Benelux
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To me it would make sense that "repatriation" flights are exempt.
BRUpax is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 22:25
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Uk
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by andrasz View Post
They can easily make it back even with pax taking the long route via North Africa/ME with a technical stop somewhere.
If I was the airline I would not want to be planning any technical stops right now. More than likely your plane is gone for good no matter if you think it’s a friendly country. Right now I don’t think Russia has any friends.

Dump the passengers and get the aircraft back. You can pay to get the pax back in alternative carriers.

I think the way this is shaping up anything confiscated is never going to be returned. Houses, yachts, cars, planes…

As it should be, all proceeds sent to Ukraine for reparations.
Flyhighfirst is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2022, 22:28
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by voyageur9 View Post
Both AFL157 Punta Cana to SVO and AFL111 MIA-SVO are in the air. Both have filed flight plans that enter Canadian airspace. Both flights could (depending on fuel loaded) avoid Canadian airspace -- but not EU and Nordic.

It will be interesting to see if "with immediate effect" actually means AFL flights get a one-way free pass back to Putinland
Looks like AFL111 is being let through by the Canadians. So the NOTAM from 16.41UTC today was basically pointless. Well done!!
RHagrid is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2022, 01:08
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Earth
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RHagrid View Post
Looks like AFL111 is being let through by the Canadians. So the NOTAM from 16.41UTC today was basically pointless. Well done!!
That same NOTAM also had this:

THIS RESTRICTION DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY AIRCRAFT FLYING IN ACCORDANCE WITH PERMISSION FROM CANADA'S MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT. AFFECTED AIRCRAFT WISHING TO OBTAIN AN AUTHORIZATION OR CLEARANCE INTO THE ABOVE-MENTIONED AIRSPACE MAY APPLY TO THE MINISTRY OF TRANSPORT AT 1-877-992-6853 OR 1-613-992-6853. 27 FEB 16:41 2022 UNTIL 25 MAY 16:00 2022 ESTIMATED. CREATED: 27 FEB 16:41 2022

Last edited by triplosete; 28th Feb 2022 at 01:37.
triplosete is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2022, 02:12
  #78 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: 3rd Rock, #29B
Posts: 1,863
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flyhighfirst View Post
If I was the airline I would not want to be planning any technical stops right now. More than likely your plane is gone for good no matter if you think it’s a friendly country. Right now I don’t think Russia has any friends.

Dump the passengers and get the aircraft back. You can pay to get the pax back in alternative carriers.

I think the way this is shaping up anything confiscated is never going to be returned. Houses, yachts, cars, planes…

As it should be, all proceeds sent to Ukraine for reparations.
  1. The UN announced last week, 2 days before PUTINIA invaded a sovereign neighbor that the 51 Billion reparations for the 1990 Iraq invasion of Kuwait had been paid back. I would think that the freezing of PUTINIA government-owned banks, including those that are essentially dedicated to supporting his military, will make the reparations faster this time round. Apparently the former KGB emperor of the country of organized crime and oligarchs that have had a rapacious appetite to plunder the natural resources of the Rodina didn't listen to the news on that day; he was too busy lying to the rest of the world.
  2. Have little sympathy for the oligarchs wealth being confiscated, and first up being applied to compensate their victims in Ukraine, and the balance being put towards the recovery of Ukraine from the numb skull actions of Putin. The oligarchs have made hay by empowering Putin, they are the problem as much as he is.
  3. Organised crime from the former USSR is a major threat to the rest of the world, and nothing has been done worth a damn to check that. It is an issue in the USA, and in UK, and within Europe. This is a great time to shut them down, and kick their sorry butts out to the 12 mile limit off Kamchatka, and give them oars. The greatest export from Russia has been AK74's and organised crime. Putin is the peak of the criminal syndicate that Russia has become.
  4. Ordinarily, I would have great sympathy for the populace of Russia that are caught outside of their state as borders close, ordinarily. Until their crime boss, Putin elevated nuclear alert status. After that, they can look after themselves. Just like those families in Ukraine that have been impacted by their government that they have passively sat by as it devolved into a crime state.
fdr is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2022, 03:32
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RHagrid View Post
Looks like AFL111 is being let through by the Canadians. So the NOTAM from 16.41UTC today was basically pointless. Well done!!
Well, AFL111 made it through as you said but AFL157 (PUJ - SV0) and AFL159 (CUN-SVO) both seem to have taken a somewhat circuitous along the US Canadian border before turning to a more northerly heading when east of Canadian Domestic Airspace
ex-EGLL is offline  
Old 28th Feb 2022, 04:31
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ex-EGLL View Post
Well, AFL111 made it through as you said but AFL157 (PUJ - SV0) and AFL159 (CUN-SVO) both seem to have taken a somewhat circuitous along the US Canadian border before turning to a more northerly heading when east of Canadian Domestic Airspace
https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...47079bf0d6f4e2
“We are aware that Aeroflot flight 111 violated the prohibition put in place earlier today on Russian flights using Canadian airspace. We are launching a review of the conduct of Aeroflot and the independent air navigation service provider, NAVCAN, leading up to this violation. We will not hesitate to take appropriate enforcement action and other measures to prevent future violations,” Transport Canada said Sunday
brak is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.