Flying an Airbus with 140hrs

[FBW390]

Flying is safer than ever? Very recently EK at TO flying at night 75 ft above the buildings…A very young Captain…Then EK Again taking off with no clearance , stopped by the tower, runway was still occupied….QR TO from intersection on 09R in MIA….and there are others…Is that safe ? No…Actually the safety level is not improving…

[FlightDetent]

LH landing on the wrong airport runway, BA taking a intersection tkof inappropriately, SU killing people in a Sukhoi, PA no-gear landing, various airlines wrong turns after take-off HKG, yet another N-registered 737 overrun...

[Consol]

I was something of an MPL skeptic but having flown with several holders I find them very well trained and capable pilots.
Bear in mind in the large parts of the planet with little GA and small air forces then there is no alternative to the MPL or fATPL route to large aircraft. Where exactly are you going to get 2000 hours on Cessnas and Beeches?

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I have said it elsewhere on this forum. Instructor SEP/MEP or bashing the circuit doesn’t necessarily make a good airline pilot.

We had a 10 year SEP/MEP instructor join my last outfit. Lovely guy and could fly the aircraft fine but operating on the line apparently he was down right dangerous. He got given 3 chances at final line check and failed. Bye bye. His landings etc were all ok but just couldn’t grasp airline flying. I never flew with him but spoke in crew room and all the line trainers said they tried so hard but the penny wasn’t dropping.

[172_driver]

There is ample of opportunity to learn "airline stick and rudder" on the line. But that's also often frowned upon by many...
In my opinion it all depends on what we want to be, button pushers or aviators. Because we're sternly heading for the former. Amplified by MPL licenses, thinner and thinner FCOMs, less and less sim-training.

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by 601

So we could now have two pilots on the fight deck with no real world experience?

I agree with you.

Thousands of hours on type within the airline's network in all-weather ops are useless. They should be replaced by drilling holes in a CAVOK sky with a C150.

[Vokes55]

Originally Posted by FBW390

Flying is safer than ever? Very recently EK at TO flying at night 75 ft above the buildings…A very young Captain…Then EK Again taking off with no clearance , stopped by the tower, runway was still occupied….QR TO from intersection on 09R in MIA….and there are others…Is that safe ? No…Actually the safety level is not improving…

And that doesn’t take into account the massive increase in flights over that time.

But hey, stick to your bitter delusional assumption that those who flew a PA28 for 2000 hours are somehow more experienced. I think most people who actually fly commercial aircraft will tell you they gained most of their “experience” through flying commercial aircraft.

[metalboi69]

If they can fly the aircraft in a safe manner, I say why not let them?

[tubby linton]

Originally Posted by metalboi69

If they can fly the aircraft in a safe manner, I say why not let them?

A number of reasons including that they do not have the ability to fly the aircraft to its full capability , in particular up to the max crosswind and they have no knowledge of the airfields and airspace they are operating in.

[Consol]

Originally Posted by tubby linton

A number of reasons including that they do not have the ability to fly the aircraft to its full capability , in particular up to the max crosswind and they have no knowledge of the airfields and airspace they are operating in.

Not many airlines allow junior FOs to make max crosswind landings anyhow. Not many Captains either.

[tubby linton]

One of my previous employers allowed FOs and of course Captains to land the aircraft up to the max crosswind. Can you call yourself a pilot if you cannot do that?

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by tubby linton

they have no knowledge of the airfields and airspace they are operating in.

How does one get knowledge of LHR, FRA, CDG etc. and its sorrounding airspace? By flying there with a C172?

[tubby linton]

Originally Posted by FlyingStone

How does one get knowledge of LHR, FRA, CDG etc. and its sorrounding airspace? By flying there with a C172?

In the pre MPL days you probably went there in a light twin as an air taxi or corporate , or in a freighter as I did.My first commercial job in the UK was as a copilot in an antique turboprop but we did fly into Heathrow and other major airports in the rush hour.
Air Europe sent all of their low hour co-pilots to a turboprop operator for a number of years.

[FBW390]

Originally Posted by Vokes55

And that doesn’t take into account the massive increase in flights over that time.

But hey, stick to your bitter delusional assumption that those who flew a PA28 for 2000 hours are somehow more experienced. I think most people who actually fly commercial aircraft will tell you they gained most of their “experience” through flying commercial aircraft.

You're right Vokes55, there are less deaths every year, but this is not what I said...I said all the events I described in post 22 where unsafe. This is different. But I have your point.
Let's take the crash of the Asiana 777 in SFO in July 2013; there has been 3 casualties "only", but was it a safe flight? Not at all, of course; it's different...The pilots showed very poor skills, in fact no skill at all, because they couldn't adapt to a new situation...

[JanetFlight]

Back in the day, 1994/1995 my CPL, some of us started flying the L-1011 with +/- 160 hrs on the right seat, directly from the lil'school
No EASA, no JAA, only the european CAA acc.each country in EU.
In 2001 we did the upgrade to ATPL and then came JAA, EASA, and all those lovely aviation fairytales.

[pineteam]

Yeah flying is safer today thanks to the advanced and robust aircraft we fly nowadays. Definitely not thanks to the pilots. In the last 20/30 years, how many of these accidents or serious incidents could have been avoided if real aviators were in the front?

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by rudestuff

Why? They've passed a type rating test to the authorities' satisfaction. They're flying multi-crew, they've had their safety pilot released and it's the only type they know so there's no bad/old habits to revert to.

They don't have any prior experience to fall back on either. Double edged sword. A lot easier to unlearn bad habits than to gain experience.

[Check Airman]

Originally Posted by FlyingStone

How does one get knowledge of LHR, FRA, CDG etc. and its sorrounding airspace? By flying there with a C172?

Actually, yes. I buzzed around class B/C airports in a 172, speaking to the same controllers I speak to now in a jet. You better believe that helped the first time I flew a jet into ORD during line training.

[Check Airman]

Thanks to all who responded. It still seems bizarre that someone so inexperienced can be given that level of responsibility. (Again, not referencing this captain in particular, just the system in general).

[hans brinker]

Originally Posted by tubby linton

One of my previous employers allowed FOs and of course Captains to land the aircraft up to the max crosswind. Can you call yourself a pilot if you cannot do that?

I think the more pertinent question is:"When do you decide that going to the limit isn't the safe choice". I do think that flying by yourself, gives (or should give) you the ability to make the decision: legal, but unsafe. Having pilots that can make that decision as opposed to having SOPs that forbid anything over 5 knots cross wind anytime for FOs is IMO better. Can that experience only be accrued through flying your C152 solo in VFR conditions? No, but getting locked into always flying with FD/AT/AP on from 100ft till 100ft isn't the answer.