FAA ADs re 5G interference
For interference to be avoided, two conditions need to be met. 1) the 5G equipment must not radiate significantly outside its allocated band, 2) the airborne equipment must must not be significantly sensitive to transmissions outside its allocated band. And of course the same conditions apply in reverse.
It is the task of frequency administrations to specify operating limits accordingly - and this must be done on an international basis.
So, if a Telecom needs to put 5G tower under approach path, they are free to do it, and FAA will merely tell everybody that from the date of installation, CAT I / II / III is effectively not available at this airport anymore. I always thought that such action (interfering with A/C navigation equipment) is something that terrorists would do, but now this is perfectly legal ??!! 
World going insane.
World going insane.So, if a Telecom needs to put 5G tower under approach path, they are free to do it, and FAA will merely tell everybody that from the date of installation, CAT I / II / III is effectively not available at this airport anymore. I always thought that such action (interfering with A/C navigation equipment) is something that terrorists would do, but now this is perfectly legal ??!! World going insane.
World going insane.Naturally the operators will resist this strongly as it would create holes in their service coverage (and airports are major concentrations of mobile radio use.)
I'm not party to internal US affairs but this would seem to be an issue between FCC and FAA, each being subject to different political pressures.
But again this is an international issue and other countries may treat it differently, within the International Radio Regulations to which each country subscribes.
Last edited by Sallyann1234; 14th Dec 2021 at 16:14.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: On a good day - at sea
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: May 2005
Location: On a good day - at sea
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
- a national antenna down-tilt requirement to protect aircraft used in low altitude military operations, search and rescue operations and medical evacuations all over the country
Decision on Amendments to SRSP-520, Technical Requirement for Fixed and/or Mobile Systems, Including Flexible Use Broadband Systems, in the Band 3450-3650 MHz - Spectrum management and telecommunications
Join Date: Apr 1998
Location: Mesopotamos
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
- a national antenna down-tilt requirement to protect aircraft used in low altitude military operations, search and rescue operations and medical evacuations all over the country
As someone who has worked with the greedy mobile telecoms, I can assure you they will fight tooth and nail to maintain their market advantage, but they also understand liability too well so I am pretty sure this whole issue was unforeseen by them as it takes years and much expense to get their wares out to market, and now the bureaucrats have been left to sort it out the only way they know how.
Perception:
So the guy in seat 1A decides to text the cab company on his new 5G phone while on finals to 27R.
The potential for this scenario must be much higher and though the transmission is at a lower power, close proximity to the goon show up front should have resulted in a more terminal arrival.
Are instances of equipment degradation more than is reported?
IG
So the guy in seat 1A decides to text the cab company on his new 5G phone while on finals to 27R.
The potential for this scenario must be much higher and though the transmission is at a lower power, close proximity to the goon show up front should have resulted in a more terminal arrival.
Are instances of equipment degradation more than is reported?
IG
The classic cellular base/tower has antennas with a downtilt to limit the interference potential to other cells. However this will not always be the case depending on local topography.
As for the guy in 1A, his phone will not be using the new frequency band if it cannot receive a signal in that band. It may still be using 5G on a lower frequency band, but the interference potential is due to the frequency of the transmission, not the modulation method. 3G or 4G could also cause interference if on the 'wrong' frequency. Also bear in mind that the GPWS antenna is pointing downwards, so relatively immune to signals from inside the plane.
As for the guy in 1A, his phone will not be using the new frequency band if it cannot receive a signal in that band. It may still be using 5G on a lower frequency band, but the interference potential is due to the frequency of the transmission, not the modulation method. 3G or 4G could also cause interference if on the 'wrong' frequency. Also bear in mind that the GPWS antenna is pointing downwards, so relatively immune to signals from inside the plane.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the US, no. There appears to be more issues with the rotorcraft side given a number of approved helicopter approaches operate in prime 5G territory and especially in the GOM. With plans to expand 5G service to over 50,000+ square miles of the GOM this could negate most of the OSAPs used for deepwater ops as they require an operative radar altimeter. And given the only place to put 5G towers is on the same platforms the helicopters operate it will definitely cause some issues. Time will tell.
Hm.... so, what about testing ? Aviation Week shows pictures of test-chambers for satellites and military antennas. Is it possible that a bit of time in such chambers could be booked to see what happens with real equipment ? Not good to do the testing in the wild outdoors....the city-canyons and so forth.
https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uplo...Altimeters.pdf
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FYI: this issue didn't simply arise when the ADs were released. The 5G/radar altimeter issue has been under scrutiny for some time now so there are a number of studies out there. Here's one presentation released last year. Time will tell which direction it will take but the implications will be global especially on the heavy plank-wing side. But from what I see there is currently no cheap/easy aircraft operational solution at hand for this issue at least on this side of the pond.
https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uplo...Altimeters.pdf
https://www.rtca.org/wp-content/uplo...Altimeters.pdf
and the telecoms industry here isnīt going to stand still in their efforts to get products to market.
From informal contacts with the UK regulator OFCOM, it seems their present attitude is not to panic but to keep a close watching brief on the situation.
The four UK cellular operators are busy building up their 5G networks, but as far as I can see none of them are yet operating in the 3.5 GHz band around e.g. LHR or LGW. This could of course change at any time as they compete to gain value from their licence investments.
OFCOM have also been consulting on possible new uses within the 3800 - 4200 MHz band which is primarily used for satellite services. This of course is immediately adjacent to the air radar band.
The four UK cellular operators are busy building up their 5G networks, but as far as I can see none of them are yet operating in the 3.5 GHz band around e.g. LHR or LGW. This could of course change at any time as they compete to gain value from their licence investments.
OFCOM have also been consulting on possible new uses within the 3800 - 4200 MHz band which is primarily used for satellite services. This of course is immediately adjacent to the air radar band.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Doncaster
Age: 50
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From informal contacts with the UK regulator OFCOM, it seems their present attitude is not to panic but to keep a close watching brief on the situation.
The four UK cellular operators are busy building up their 5G networks, but as far as I can see none of them are yet operating in the 3.5 GHz band around e.g. LHR or LGW. This could of course change at any time as they compete to gain value from their licence investments.
OFCOM have also been consulting on possible new uses within the 3800 - 4200 MHz band which is primarily used for satellite services. This of course is immediately adjacent to the air radar band.
The four UK cellular operators are busy building up their 5G networks, but as far as I can see none of them are yet operating in the 3.5 GHz band around e.g. LHR or LGW. This could of course change at any time as they compete to gain value from their licence investments.
OFCOM have also been consulting on possible new uses within the 3800 - 4200 MHz band which is primarily used for satellite services. This of course is immediately adjacent to the air radar band.
BBC report today
Boeing and Airbus warn US over 5G safety concerns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59737194Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Within AM radio broadcast range of downtown Chicago
Age: 71
Posts: 844
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At least they're talking
Airlines for America and two other major trade associations have announced that they're trying to resolve the 5G service introduction issues (Aerospace Industries Ass'n and Cellular Telecommunications Industry Ass'n).
link to announcement:
Statement from A4A, AIA and CTIA Airlines For America
"WASHINGTON, DECEMBER 22, 2021 The following statement was issued today by A4A, AIA and CTIA:
We are pleased that after productive discussions we will be working together to share the available data from all parties to identify the specific areas of concern for aviation. The best technical experts from across both industries will be working collectively to identify a path forward, in coordination with the FAA and FCC.
Our belief is that by working collaboratively in good faith on a data-driven solution, we can achieve our shared goal of deploying 5G while preserving aviation safety."
link to announcement:
Statement from A4A, AIA and CTIA Airlines For America
"WASHINGTON, DECEMBER 22, 2021 The following statement was issued today by A4A, AIA and CTIA:
We are pleased that after productive discussions we will be working together to share the available data from all parties to identify the specific areas of concern for aviation. The best technical experts from across both industries will be working collectively to identify a path forward, in coordination with the FAA and FCC.
Our belief is that by working collaboratively in good faith on a data-driven solution, we can achieve our shared goal of deploying 5G while preserving aviation safety."
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
real tests 5G vs. helicopter ??
Hi, I found this: https://www.iliad.fr/en/actualites/a...-drisquage-124
In French, dated 3/09/2021 : https://www.universfreebox.com/artic...quage-de-la-5g
Looks like the French did at least a bit of testing. Donīt have more details, but the movie makes a good impression that makes me ask for more of the same, maybe different helicopter, different 5G installation, and, of course, fixed wing aircraft.
In French, dated 3/09/2021 : https://www.universfreebox.com/artic...quage-de-la-5g
Looks like the French did at least a bit of testing. Donīt have more details, but the movie makes a good impression that makes me ask for more of the same, maybe different helicopter, different 5G installation, and, of course, fixed wing aircraft.
Unfortunately that test - or at least the report of it - is of no use without a mention of the frequencies that were used for the 5G transmissions. Were they in the new band 3.6 to 3.8GHz* which is of concern due to being nearer to the aeronautical allocation, or in the lower cellular bands e.g. 2.6GHz?
It is the potential conflict from nearly adjacent frequencies that is critical. 5G cellular in the lower bands, which has been in use for some time, poses no risk to airborne operations.
* individual national allocations may be different.
It is the potential conflict from nearly adjacent frequencies that is critical. 5G cellular in the lower bands, which has been in use for some time, poses no risk to airborne operations.
* individual national allocations may be different.