Brexit and the Aviation industry
Pegase Driver
Join Date: May 1997
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From my understanding the problem is not for next week but will be in 2 years time when the transition waiver(s) ends. The future of the 50 or so UK citizens working for EASA is also an issue. , some of them carry very valuable expertise in EASA , some might want to apply for the UK CAA but the salaries are not the same and since most are there since many years , all might not want to leave their current homes in Cologne and the CAA might not want to take them all.
It would have been so much easier for everyone and made much more sense technically for the UK to remain in EASA as they could have, even with Brexit.
With this situation , decided on pure political grounds, both organizations , EASA and CAA are weakened .
It would have been so much easier for everyone and made much more sense technically for the UK to remain in EASA as they could have, even with Brexit.
With this situation , decided on pure political grounds, both organizations , EASA and CAA are weakened .
Join Date: Mar 2001
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FlyingStone
That is true for traffic rights. Leasing, as in any such agreement, is an independent chapter. As the company leasing in other crew/aircraft has to have the traffic rights, not the ACMI provider, it allows UK airlines to take advantage of the vibrant EU ACMI market, but not EU airlines to do the same with UK providers. Dry lease has no restrictions by the way.
That is true for traffic rights. Leasing, as in any such agreement, is an independent chapter. As the company leasing in other crew/aircraft has to have the traffic rights, not the ACMI provider, it allows UK airlines to take advantage of the vibrant EU ACMI market, but not EU airlines to do the same with UK providers. Dry lease has no restrictions by the way.
Join Date: Apr 2013
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The Brexit agreement only covers the UK-EU flights, but not UK domestic flights or flights from UK to outside of EU.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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7. As regards leasing:
(a) the Parties shall grant each other the right for their air carriers to provide air transport services in accordance with Article AIRTRN.3 [Traffic rights] in all the following ways:
(i) using aircraft leased without crew from any lessor;
(ii) in the case of air carriers of the United Kingdom, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Parties;
(iii) in the case of air carriers of the Union, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Union;
(iv) using aircraft leased with crew from air carriers other than those referred to in points (ii) and (iii), respectively, provided that the leasing is justified on the basis of exceptional needs, seasonal capacity needs or operational difficulties of the lessee, and the leasing does not exceed the duration which is strictly necessary to fulfil those needs or overcome those difficulties;
(a) the Parties shall grant each other the right for their air carriers to provide air transport services in accordance with Article AIRTRN.3 [Traffic rights] in all the following ways:
(i) using aircraft leased without crew from any lessor;
(ii) in the case of air carriers of the United Kingdom, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Parties;
(iii) in the case of air carriers of the Union, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Union;
(iv) using aircraft leased with crew from air carriers other than those referred to in points (ii) and (iii), respectively, provided that the leasing is justified on the basis of exceptional needs, seasonal capacity needs or operational difficulties of the lessee, and the leasing does not exceed the duration which is strictly necessary to fulfil those needs or overcome those difficulties;
I'm glad the consumers will be better off, though. Less choice, more complex rules, increased operating costs that airlines wouldn't think in a million years to pass on to the ticket buyers.
I would love to know what they thought the CAA told them two years ago. Very surprising that a well resourced company would rely on CAA best guess / advice and guidance when the CAA made it clear all along that there was much uncertainty and nothing would be certain until a deal was agreed or we left without a deal. Assuming the worst case scenario and we had crashed out, why did they think that it would be appropriate and fair on other UK operators if they were allowed to set up a UK shell company with one aircraft and then continue to operate another 60 odd on the Irish Register?
Unfortunately for Ryanair, this UK register requirement slightly upsets their finely tuned model with one common fleet, one regulator and the ability to pool resources. The last thing they need is divergence and two regulators forcing their very standardised fleet into two different mod states.
Unfortunately for Ryanair, this UK register requirement slightly upsets their finely tuned model with one common fleet, one regulator and the ability to pool resources. The last thing they need is divergence and two regulators forcing their very standardised fleet into two different mod states.
Join Date: Nov 2018
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This one will be interesting. If RYR would not be allowed to base or operate within the UK on EI registrations how could DHL Air UK be allowed to operate G-reg’s within the EU?
Join Date: Apr 2010
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SaulGoodman
The agreement provides fifth freedom rights to cargo carriers, as long as start or finish of trip is in the UK (for UK carriers) or EU (for EU carriers).
The agreement provides fifth freedom rights to cargo carriers, as long as start or finish of trip is in the UK (for UK carriers) or EU (for EU carriers).
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But don't DHL Air UK fly most of their routes intra-EU with trips ending in LEJ? And don't they have significant number of pilots based in LEJ?
And aren't they flying to US destinations out of BRU?
And aren't they flying to US destinations out of BRU?
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FlyingStone
exactly. Therefore I used the example of LEJ-VIT-OPO for instance, this would not be possible to my understanding using a G-reg. But LEJ-EMA-DUB should be possible on a D/EI- reg.
In my view it would make much more sense to re-register most of the DHK fleet to D-reg. But I guess they are smart enough in Bonn and have plans in place.
exactly. Therefore I used the example of LEJ-VIT-OPO for instance, this would not be possible to my understanding using a G-reg. But LEJ-EMA-DUB should be possible on a D/EI- reg.
In my view it would make much more sense to re-register most of the DHK fleet to D-reg. But I guess they are smart enough in Bonn and have plans in place.
Ummm... OK ..TBH I found if the subject did come up during crew debate you often got the answer that did the least to rock the boat over the next 2, 3...9 days....
On the basis of conversations I had with fellow captains and F/Os I wouldn't want to begin to even hazard a guess over which way the Long Haul vote fell.....
On the basis of conversations I had with fellow captains and F/Os I wouldn't want to begin to even hazard a guess over which way the Long Haul vote fell.....
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You can say the same for engineers. The people in my last line station (regional) was 6 engineers. Even split, 3 each side. Two were ex BCAR (ex FLM/Mechs from the RAF). Their reason was to get Johnny Foriegner out of here, no more, no less. The third was a nationalist , but EASA qualified to the ticket (he went to Maggies funeral to route line watch). Other 3 were one BCAR that had worked abroad on his EASA ticket, myself (ex RAF but defo centre ground and reasons to remain was the shower we have in power now where the alternative) and the youngest guy whom was an ex farmer, done the EASA trail and was pro Europe. I never heard soveriegnty as a baseline for the decisions, it was kick Johnny out. Even if he wasn't from the EU.
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King surf..
That’s very odd as I left shorthaul last year after 7 years and only came across 2 or 3 skippers who voted leave, it was debated many many times during and after the referendum (and countless times since) maybe they just didn’t want to tell me? Or is it a case of playing to the audience as wiggly suggests?
That’s very odd as I left shorthaul last year after 7 years and only came across 2 or 3 skippers who voted leave, it was debated many many times during and after the referendum (and countless times since) maybe they just didn’t want to tell me? Or is it a case of playing to the audience as wiggly suggests?