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Brexit and the Aviation industry

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Brexit and the Aviation industry

Old 27th Dec 2020, 10:47
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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They never have so I very much doubt it!
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 10:52
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Denti

The Brexit agreement only covers the UK-EU flights, but not UK domestic flights or flights from UK to outside of EU.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 10:52
  #83 (permalink)  
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From my understanding the problem is not for next week but will be in 2 years time when the transition waiver(s) ends. The future of the 50 or so UK citizens working for EASA is also an issue. , some of them carry very valuable expertise in EASA , some might want to apply for the UK CAA but the salaries are not the same and since most are there since many years , all might not want to leave their current homes in Cologne and the CAA might not want to take them all.
It would have been so much easier for everyone and made much more sense technically for the UK to remain in EASA as they could have, even with Brexit.
With this situation , decided on pure political grounds, both organizations , EASA and CAA are weakened .
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 10:59
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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FlyingStone

That is true for traffic rights. Leasing, as in any such agreement, is an independent chapter. As the company leasing in other crew/aircraft has to have the traffic rights, not the ACMI provider, it allows UK airlines to take advantage of the vibrant EU ACMI market, but not EU airlines to do the same with UK providers. Dry lease has no restrictions by the way.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 11:15
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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The Brexit agreement only covers the UK-EU flights, but not UK domestic flights or flights from UK to outside of EU.
What are we saying then, TUI and Jet2 can engage SmartLynx/Avion to fly on their behalf from UK to Spain but not UK to Turkey?
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 11:33
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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7. As regards leasing:
(a) the Parties shall grant each other the right for their air carriers to provide air transport services in accordance with Article AIRTRN.3 [Traffic rights] in all the following ways:
(i) using aircraft leased without crew from any lessor;
(ii) in the case of air carriers of the United Kingdom, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Parties;
(iii) in the case of air carriers of the Union, using aircraft leased with crew from other air carriers of the Union;
(iv) using aircraft leased with crew from air carriers other than those referred to in points (ii) and (iii), respectively, provided that the leasing is justified on the basis of exceptional needs, seasonal capacity needs or operational difficulties of the lessee, and the leasing does not exceed the duration which is strictly necessary to fulfil those needs or overcome those difficulties;
The leasing bit only applies for the traffic rights set in AIRTRN.3, which only really mentions traffic between UK and the EU (and onwards journey if applicable). It does not cover the flights from UK to non-EU countries. I suspect that EU ACMIs operating for UK airlines on non-EU flights would be subject to bilateral agreements between UK and the destination country.

I'm glad the consumers will be better off, though. Less choice, more complex rules, increased operating costs that airlines wouldn't think in a million years to pass on to the ticket buyers.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 11:38
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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But you still need to meet the conditions of your UK AOC, as Ryanair UK are finding out.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 12:05
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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I would love to know what they thought the CAA told them two years ago. Very surprising that a well resourced company would rely on CAA best guess / advice and guidance when the CAA made it clear all along that there was much uncertainty and nothing would be certain until a deal was agreed or we left without a deal. Assuming the worst case scenario and we had crashed out, why did they think that it would be appropriate and fair on other UK operators if they were allowed to set up a UK shell company with one aircraft and then continue to operate another 60 odd on the Irish Register?
Unfortunately for Ryanair, this UK register requirement slightly upsets their finely tuned model with one common fleet, one regulator and the ability to pool resources. The last thing they need is divergence and two regulators forcing their very standardised fleet into two different mod states.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 12:14
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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This one will be interesting. If RYR would not be allowed to base or operate within the UK on EI registrations how could DHL Air UK be allowed to operate G-reg’s within the EU?
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 12:15
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Ryanair have had their fleet registered in Poland and Malta for a couple of years now, so they are not new to working with multiple regulators.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 12:42
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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SaulGoodman

The agreement provides fifth freedom rights to cargo carriers, as long as start or finish of trip is in the UK (for UK carriers) or EU (for EU carriers).
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 12:48
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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But don't DHL Air UK fly most of their routes intra-EU with trips ending in LEJ? And don't they have significant number of pilots based in LEJ?
And aren't they flying to US destinations out of BRU?

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Old 27th Dec 2020, 13:02
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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FlyingStone

exactly. Therefore I used the example of LEJ-VIT-OPO for instance, this would not be possible to my understanding using a G-reg. But LEJ-EMA-DUB should be possible on a D/EI- reg.

In my view it would make much more sense to re-register most of the DHK fleet to D-reg. But I guess they are smart enough in Bonn and have plans in place.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 13:27
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Most BA short haul Skippers voted leave.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 14:52
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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SaulGoodman

I’m not sure if DHL want all their aircraft on the D register due being at mercy of German pilot unions, this is what I’ve heard anyway no idea if it’s true.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 15:12
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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king surf

Not impossible but a citation for that please..I certainly don't remember BA or BALPA running a "which way did you vote" survey.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 17:14
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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The citation is simply comments from all the FO's I fly with. They all say that almost all they have asked are leavers.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 17:27
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Ummm... OK ..TBH I found if the subject did come up during crew debate you often got the answer that did the least to rock the boat over the next 2, 3...9 days....

On the basis of conversations I had with fellow captains and F/Os I wouldn't want to begin to even hazard a guess over which way the Long Haul vote fell.....

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Old 27th Dec 2020, 17:39
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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You can say the same for engineers. The people in my last line station (regional) was 6 engineers. Even split, 3 each side. Two were ex BCAR (ex FLM/Mechs from the RAF). Their reason was to get Johnny Foriegner out of here, no more, no less. The third was a nationalist , but EASA qualified to the ticket (he went to Maggies funeral to route line watch). Other 3 were one BCAR that had worked abroad on his EASA ticket, myself (ex RAF but defo centre ground and reasons to remain was the shower we have in power now where the alternative) and the youngest guy whom was an ex farmer, done the EASA trail and was pro Europe. I never heard soveriegnty as a baseline for the decisions, it was kick Johnny out. Even if he wasn't from the EU.
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Old 27th Dec 2020, 18:42
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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King surf..

That’s very odd as I left shorthaul last year after 7 years and only came across 2 or 3 skippers who voted leave, it was debated many many times during and after the referendum (and countless times since) maybe they just didn’t want to tell me? Or is it a case of playing to the audience as wiggly suggests?
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