Southern Air 777 stall and recovery after takeoff, Nov 15th
"Absence of attitude protection in the autopilot's altitude capture mode"
A different type but same issue, aircraft flown by test pilots but still fatal......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus...rie_Flight_129
A different type but same issue, aircraft flown by test pilots but still fatal......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus...rie_Flight_129
AFCS software fault, whıch was so tragically discovered by Nick Warner's crew, was corrected before 330 went into production.
I wonder - if the system could inadvertently get into 'balked landing and a go-around' situation' - TOGA / IDLE after take-off ?
'… the auto-throttle remained engaged in the IDLE mode when the flight crew advanced the thrust levers to conduct a balked landing (a go-around initiated after touchdown, but before the thrust lever selection). Once airborne, the thrust levers moved back to idle.'
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/dc7bd4f27e5f107486257221005f069d/b250f3003abca8a7862586220083a35a/$FILE/AIR-20-19.pdf
SAIB AIR-20-19
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...9?OpenDocument
'… the auto-throttle remained engaged in the IDLE mode when the flight crew advanced the thrust levers to conduct a balked landing (a go-around initiated after touchdown, but before the thrust lever selection). Once airborne, the thrust levers moved back to idle.'
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/dc7bd4f27e5f107486257221005f069d/b250f3003abca8a7862586220083a35a/$FILE/AIR-20-19.pdf
SAIB AIR-20-19
https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...9?OpenDocument
Last edited by safetypee; 22nd Nov 2020 at 09:20.
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SaylGoodman
Why? Busiest airspace I’ve ever encountered along with not great ATC.
If a colleague informs me they’ll be hand flying it I don’t say anything but do think to myself WHY?
Why? Busiest airspace I’ve ever encountered along with not great ATC.
If a colleague informs me they’ll be hand flying it I don’t say anything but do think to myself WHY?
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400’ AP on as SOP is sad. Busy could be an excuse, but during this pandemic hardly any movement at all. And in busy airspace one could hand-fly easily. Myself and most of the colleagues do it all the time if the situation permits.
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Totally agree and there speaks another professional pilot. The guys who think they’re ‘part’ of the aeroplane and want to ‘feel’ it are only increasing the workload for their colleague.
Leave the machoism to the film set.
PS and two weeks ago JFK seemed as busy as ever for departures.
Leave the machoism to the film set.
PS and two weeks ago JFK seemed as busy as ever for departures.
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I was there a couple of days ago. Not busy at all. By all means putt it on at 400’ if you want. But having that as a “Standard Operating Procedure” is sad. If my colleague wants to fly manual in JFK airspace I’m usually ok with that. Turning the heading bug and pushing a few buttons doesn’t usually overload me. That is if the situation permits. Las month I flew raw data into HKG. Its a miracle I am still alive
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Airspeed Low warning? It has been a while since I flew the triple but don't you only get a quadruple chime for the airspeed low caution(along with some visual indications such as FPV which disappeared when the flaps were retracted) followed by stickshaker.
When I turn the volume up on the video, it sounds to me like the autopilot disconnect warning(siren). It is rarely heard because the pilot usually clicks the autopilot disconnect button twice. But the second click may not happen on occasion such as stressful situations.
Overspeed warning? I suppose you get a siren for an overspeed as well, but the pilot on the radio was saying stall repeatedly, so excess speed was probably not the issue.
Disconnecting the autopilot is a plausible scenario in a low speed situation.
Our company had a similar event when the slats were retracted accidentally at too low an airspeed by the F/O.
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early flaps 1 retraction by PM that triggers “airspeed low” caution, PF pitches down to gain speed, PM freaks out and selects flaps 5 (placard speed 245kts) and exceeds Flaps Speed triggering the siren.. 🤷🏻♂️
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Not in a 777, but I used to hand fly to and from JFK all the time. Especially fun with the Breezy point and Canarsie climbs, and of course the VOR 13L/R.
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The minimum maneuvering speed for the current flap setting is shown on the PFD speed tape as the top of the top of the amber band and the flap maneuvering speed is shown as the number of the current flap setting e.g. for Flap 5, a green number 5 on the speed tape. Source: 777 FCOM 10-10 > Controls and indications > Primary Flight Display (PFD) > PFD indications
The Vref +20, 40, 60 & 80 speeds are the FLAP maneuvering speeds for F20, F5, F1 and Flap UP respectively and are the speeds we would normally fly as a minimum with those flaps settings but they aren't the minimum maneuvering speeds, which are always lower. Confusing isn't it?
Finally Vref+80 is normally referred to as 'minimum clean speed' but, as above it isn't the minimum maneuvering speed clean.
it's a bit like explaining the laws of cricket.
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Last edited by VThokie2; 23rd Nov 2020 at 01:53.
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Spooky 2;
i don’t think it’s SOP, but rather the minimum. That’s when I engage it in the sim. I’m pretty sure most airlines and authorities recommend using automation to reduce workload in high workload environments.
i don’t think it’s SOP, but rather the minimum. That’s when I engage it in the sim. I’m pretty sure most airlines and authorities recommend using automation to reduce workload in high workload environments.
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But as I like to say when it comes to aviation incidents.....If it can somehow happen, it has happened.