Last A380 Leaves Assembly Hall
Bidule,
Airbus never built the freighter version. My Airline bought at least 10 of them as well as FedEx. Airbus never went through the development of the freighter version because once the floors were strengthened for cargo ops, the additional weight made it uneconomical to operate. If your numbers are correct, why didn’t Airbus build the freighter, and especially today, when cargo ops are booming?
Airbus never built the freighter version. My Airline bought at least 10 of them as well as FedEx. Airbus never went through the development of the freighter version because once the floors were strengthened for cargo ops, the additional weight made it uneconomical to operate. If your numbers are correct, why didn’t Airbus build the freighter, and especially today, when cargo ops are booming?
In fact they did design it. They even built the first set of wings for the freighter.
This wing was meant to be the wing for the A380-800R and stretched -900 as well. They halted the freighter when they had to redesign the harnesses overnight and some other stuff. At that time they must have realized that the hoped for market was way smaller than expected.
This wing was meant to be the wing for the A380-800R and stretched -900 as well. They halted the freighter when they had to redesign the harnesses overnight and some other stuff. At that time they must have realized that the hoped for market was way smaller than expected.
Bidule
Paper airplanes don't count - as others have pointed out, the A380F was never built.
To get your quoted 151 ton payload, Airbus was going in increase the MZFW by 41 tons, while decreasing the empty weight by a further 26 tons (I wonder if they could have achieved that empty weight number - once they add all the extra structure and main deck doors for a freighter it generally doesn't make all that much difference in the empty weight compared to the passenger version). The passenger A380 can only carry about 84 tons of payload - less than the 777 P2F.
As I previously posted, the 747 was designed from day one to make a good freighter - the A380 wasn't. If Airbus had gone for the higher MZFW for the passenger A380, a P2F mod might have worked, but they didn't and it's too late now. 20-20 hindsight and all that...
Paper airplanes don't count - as others have pointed out, the A380F was never built.
To get your quoted 151 ton payload, Airbus was going in increase the MZFW by 41 tons, while decreasing the empty weight by a further 26 tons (I wonder if they could have achieved that empty weight number - once they add all the extra structure and main deck doors for a freighter it generally doesn't make all that much difference in the empty weight compared to the passenger version). The passenger A380 can only carry about 84 tons of payload - less than the 777 P2F.
As I previously posted, the 747 was designed from day one to make a good freighter - the A380 wasn't. If Airbus had gone for the higher MZFW for the passenger A380, a P2F mod might have worked, but they didn't and it's too late now. 20-20 hindsight and all that...
The A380 freighter was no general cargo freighter but mainly intended for containerized express cargo on three decks. The high range was the selling point. Asia- inland USA nonstop and such. This is why FedEx and UPS had already signed firm orders. Looking at the planned A380-family of HGW versions and stretches it made sense.
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Just saw an older report from the A380 rollout on TV the other day...
Statement from Charles Champion : "Everybody told us we would fail, but we proved them wrong"
...maybe...
As a passenger I will really miss to bo on board of one, and will be more than happy to no longer cueue up with 500+ fellow passenge at check-in, security, boarding, immigration, or the baggage belt...
A lot of airports killed this projects as much as all the other negative aspects did. Some never managed to manage that large aircraft. All they did was installing additional jetways and putting up big "A380 ready" signs, but never touched the real bottlenecks.
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Bad, very bad airports! Just as bad as all those counties that did not adapte their roads to accomodate the fantastic Humvee .....
What a silly argument, not worth your usual expertise.
What a silly argument, not worth your usual expertise.
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Actually, the main problem is the design of the low pressure turbine, as it needs to spin at the same rotational speed as the fan (which will be very low with such a large diameter). We have geared turbofans now, but not for those diameters and thrust levels (about 825 kN /185 klbf per engine, assuming a thrust to weight ratio of 0.3, which is higher than the current 0.25 with 4 engines due to the single engine inoperative climb requirements).
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Great airplane for the intended use. EK has a good plan at 55 380s , trunk routes / slot restricted. Then they got stupid big ego greedy . Prior to covid things were declining now the house of cards has fallen and no one has sympathy for their arrogance.
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It was quite clear 380 was toast, when someone shared how much fuel an fully loaded 380 and full 77W had taken before leaving right after each others from a middle east desert airport to an european capital. The 77W was more fuel efficient per pax! Granted, the 77W was a more flying sardine can configuration, but hey, how would want to fly in a sardine can configured 380?
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The B777 didn't start off as a sardine can, with many airlines using 3-3-3 in economy with a 34 inch pitch, but then EK went for 3-4-3 and a 32 inch pitch. But Joe Public didn't care, they had good IFE and free beer
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When the first 380's came into service we had a 380 and a 777 on adjacent stands and we were shocked at how much extra fuel we had to load on the 380 to the same destination (LHR) - that coupled with the amount of freight that got left behind made the economics seem rather tight.
Of course when the price of oil fell to $50 a barrel the extra fuel burn was less important.
Of course when the price of oil fell to $50 a barrel the extra fuel burn was less important.
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I think the 380 did very well for EK given that their whole business was built on the Hub/spoke model. I also wonder exactly how much EK actually paid for their airframes given that for most of its life EK was really the only major customer for the aircraft that Airbus had.
Having had the good fortune to ride the A380 down to Miami and back, just before the lockdown, and fully understanding that any personal preferences that I may have in selecting my chariot, are restricted by economics. This is one aircraft that will be sorely missed by we, the Punters. I chose the A380 over the 777 on the same route simply on the recommendation of a good number of members of this forum, friends and other sources. Not only was I not disappointed, it made being crammed in a sardine can for 10 hours, infinitely more bearable.
If Airbus made a very large twin, with the same ride quality, internal space, and improved economy, I am sure it would be a winner. (The A350 is certainly moving in the right direction, but needs to grow a bit more.
also don't think Boeing have the mindset to compete with these concepts.
Just my quibbling, doubt the bean counters will ever see it my way.
If Airbus made a very large twin, with the same ride quality, internal space, and improved economy, I am sure it would be a winner. (The A350 is certainly moving in the right direction, but needs to grow a bit more.
also don't think Boeing have the mindset to compete with these concepts.
Just my quibbling, doubt the bean counters will ever see it my way.
Last edited by Imagegear; 27th Oct 2020 at 11:26.
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There seems to be an accepted wisdom that the A380 is "roomier", especially in long haul economy routes.
My butt tells me this is not so, as do the comprehensive seat pitch/width schedules found in Seat Guru. Sure, maybe an inch here or there on pitch/width between carriers/types but really nothing to warrant the gushing praise for the 380 sometimes seen in these posts.
I take the point that downward pricing has done this. Most non-aviation people I speak to do not know the aircraft type they are travelling in and care even less.
My butt tells me this is not so, as do the comprehensive seat pitch/width schedules found in Seat Guru. Sure, maybe an inch here or there on pitch/width between carriers/types but really nothing to warrant the gushing praise for the 380 sometimes seen in these posts.
I take the point that downward pricing has done this. Most non-aviation people I speak to do not know the aircraft type they are travelling in and care even less.
I have had occasion to ride a 787 a number of times. When flying on that thing, wifey and I pack inflatable butt cushions that we blow up just before taking our "seats". The thing creaks and squeaks like a plastic bucket even when lightly loaded. Flashy window blinds don't hack it for me. The only marginal alternative would be a 343 config 777.
Admittedly not all airlines have the same seat setup, but on BA, I would take an A380 over anything else on long haul. It helps that we are able to travel PE or Business. Still as I say, no one wants my opinion, it's not cost-effective enough.
As for gushing, well I hate flying anyway and only endure it because there is no other way to reach my destinations, If I had the time and the money I would go by ship.
Admittedly not all airlines have the same seat setup, but on BA, I would take an A380 over anything else on long haul. It helps that we are able to travel PE or Business. Still as I say, no one wants my opinion, it's not cost-effective enough.
As for gushing, well I hate flying anyway and only endure it because there is no other way to reach my destinations, If I had the time and the money I would go by ship.
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Most non-aviation people I speak to do not know the aircraft type they are travelling in and care even less.
If you are flying over 10h I can tell you that people do know and look at the aircraft they fly. So much so that on routes where types compete , like FRA-SIN for instance where the A330, B777, 747 and A380 were avail , the fares on the A380 were always higher and the first to get full .
The same was briefly visible on Delta, where the 767s were competing with the A350 on some routes, but that was all before Covid..
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What limits the belly cargo amount mostly is the large center wing box and the large sloping empennage. While the latter has a lot to do with the double deck design, the first one is mostly due to high range requirements.
