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Air India Runway Excursion

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Air India Runway Excursion

Old 12th Aug 2020, 00:03
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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But both seats weren't occupied by captains. The FO had 1073 hours total flight time according to the Minister of Civil Aviation.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 01:05
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
Re read #142 & # 155.
Might give you a Ďfavourí of Indian aviation.
Thank you. So clearly not the epitome of excellent CRM & human factors.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 07:38
  #203 (permalink)  

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You may wish to cross reference this event with the Karachi A.320 fatality in May ~ PIA 8303
The interim report was published in June.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 08:15
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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well...that's air india.....a accident nearly every 5 years...
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:05
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
According to news reports Captain Sathe was given a state funeral today for his heroism.

https://edtimes.in/late-air-india-pi...m-a-real-hero/
Are those people serious?! smh
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:10
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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I don't think state funeral is the correct analogy. Since he is ex armed forces he is entitled to a funeral as per military protocol at the armed forces crematorium along with the gun salute. Read as much into the state funeral as you will about switching off the engines. Over eager narrative that is searching for heroes where there are none.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:17
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
Are those people serious?! smh
The ED Times article contains other gems, including the following from the Captain's cousin:

Landing gears didnít work.
Ex IAF pilot made three rounds of airport to empty the fuel which saved plane from catching fire. Thatís why there was no smoke seen coming from the crashed aircraft.
He turned off the engine right before the crash.
He belly landed after the 3rd iteration.
The right wing was ruptured.
The Pilot martyred but saved life of 180 co-passengers.
As well as the editorial comment:

... the plane crashed due to bad weather that had made the runway slippery and led to the plane being unable to make a safe landing.

The flight ... overshot the table-top runway at the airport due to heavy rains.
So no need for an investigation report.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:29
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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They crashed cause they landed half the runway and apparently tried to go around on top of that. Sure let's wait for for the investigation report but calling him a hero is an insult to all the innocent people who lost their life.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:30
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Before everyone gets too upset / indignant / outraged about how the Indian press & general public have reacted to this extraordinary accident then perhaps they should reflect upon the way the initial press reports of the Kegworth 737 accident at East Midlands were written. In particular the captain (small c here!) was hailed as a hero for saving so many lives..........
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:31
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
They crashed cause they landed half the runway and apparently tried to go around on top of that. Sure let's wait for for the investigation report but calling him a hero is an insult to all the innocent people who lost their life.
I may have missed it but is there evidence, as opposed to conjecture, that either of the above happened?
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:43
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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Arun Kumar, Director-General for Civil Aviation, told CNN News-18 on Saturday that the plane landed about 3,000 feet into a 9,000 feet-long runway, causing it to breach a further 240-meter (787 feet) safety area at high speed and crash into a valley beyond.
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com...le32313766.ece
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 09:46
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you, so a third of the way along (not half). Look I am not saying that crew actons were faultless but there seems to be a lot of jumping to conclusions.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 10:00
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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You are welcome. Yes sorry I have exaggerated a bit. But it drives me crazy that so many people think he is a hero when clearly he is not.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 11:40
  #214 (permalink)  

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Start at #178 and add to it with credible information and pictures from the crash site. Look at AVHerald.com for additional information.
A matter for conjecture ~ why didn’t they divert......

Last edited by parkfell; 12th Aug 2020 at 12:22.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 12:20
  #215 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Gizm0 View Post
....... perhaps they should reflect upon the way the initial press reports of the Kegworth 737 accident at East Midlands were written. In particular the captain (small c here!) was hailed as a hero for saving so many lives..........
They were unfortunate to encounter the M1 motorway and the westerly embankment.
Just that bit higher gliding past it might have been a whole different story?
The popular press do tend to create a story.

The AAIB of course eventually painted a somewhat different picture from that of hero.
Let us hope the Indian authorities are as punctilious as their UK AAIB counterparts.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 15:09
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Hey, "Airbubba" Dude, I presume you too are a "Pilot" ???
I knew this Officer - as a fellow Test Pilot.
Let's cut some slack here, may we please?
I agree that that putting the Captain on a pedestal ( mostly initiated by a retired Air Marshal of the IAF, who must have been his immediate superior in some capacity a long time ago and perhaps in good faith) - was definitely premature.
It also may be appearing increasingly evident that the landing may have been botched.
But does that excuse you for using the sarcasm here ??? Against a chap who really cannot defend himself now?
Take a break fella, will you please?

Last edited by Rigid Rotor; 12th Aug 2020 at 15:12. Reason: Syntax
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 16:25
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor View Post
It also may be appearing increasingly evident that the landing may have been botched.
But does that excuse you for using the sarcasm here ??? Against a chap who really cannot defend himself now?
Not sure what sarcasm you think I'm using. I put 'pilot' in quotes since the early news stories said the 'pilot' turned off the 'engine'. Obviously there were two pilots and two engines. Similar stories of 737's circling to dump fuel appear in American media as well. However, like the A320's with dual bogies, Boeing probably built a 737 with fuel dump for some customer that I don't know about (yet).

Are you familiar with Captain Sathe's earlier crash? Was it a Hindustan MiG-21? The inspiring story of his recovery after being told that he would never fly again is reminiscent of the medical saga of SR-71 pilot Brian Shul.
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 16:55
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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Airbubba,
Human actions, statements, are influenced by their point of view.
Thus perhaps with a more worldly view, your comments, seen by some to be offensive or misjudged, could be reconsidered to reflect cultures other than yours - US ?

This issue also relates to other posts in this thread which are blinked by a single point of view, personal experiences, 'home' culture - national, organisational, or professional.

Accidents can be generalised as involving the situation and context.

Situation - factual; evidence of the situation at the time the event occurred. This cannot be easily judged by others without the facts from recordings nor specialist interpretation.

Context - subjective; beliefs, motivations, perceptions and values of the individuals involved. Any judgement of these will be subjective, according to viewpoint, and cannot be stated with any certainty.

More fruitful discussion might start with what is not known, opposed to what is attributed to 'fact'.


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Old 12th Aug 2020, 17:07
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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"More fruitful discussion might start with what is not known"

OK, then, alf, for you:
Why touch down 1/3 of the way along a wet runway with a tailwind and marginal LDA?
Why not then go-round?

Fruitful discussion?
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Old 12th Aug 2020, 17:31
  #220 (permalink)  
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Captain Hindsight,

Their first approach was in the other direction and they were unable to get in, they went around and tried RW28.
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