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PIA A320 Crash Karachi

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PIA A320 Crash Karachi

Old 11th Jun 2020, 21:10
  #1161 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
In addition in many modern Towers you cannot monitor the approach anyway ( too far away )
While a new tower at OPKC has been planned for several years, the current one (built in 1932) is atop the original terminal, not particularly high, and about 3/4 of the way down the runway from the 25 end (around 2.6 km from the 25L piano keys).
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 21:11
  #1162 (permalink)  
 
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'We are comfortable, we can make it'
Was there an 'Inshallah' there at the end?
May of course be quite usual but it grabbed my attention.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 21:38
  #1163 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by phiggsbroadband View Post
As an ex endurance event cyclist, I think that Dehydration, and Hunger Bonk will be part of the cause of this accident.
Why, do you have some special insight into what the crew ate and drank that day that nobody else does?? (they are not required to fast due to their occupation, although some obviously still do)

Plenty of people have crashed aircraft in a stupid way whilst fully fed and watered...
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 22:26
  #1164 (permalink)  
 
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Is ignoring ATC a common thing?

(SLF) After reading through this thread I haven't seen an answer to this question I am having: is it a common thing for the PIC to simply ignore a given vector by ATC and bluntly answer that they are fine and won't comply?
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 22:42
  #1165 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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There would have to be justification to decline an ATC instruction. In this case the aircraft had established on the ILS (albeit grossly not stable) and the Captain was ‘comfortable’ with the situation, despite the circumstances which tragically unfolded.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 00:59
  #1166 (permalink)  
 
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There is a PIA website where at least one post refers to both pilots fasting. Shouldn't be too hard to find. My detailed information or research indicating the reasons why "cultural" matters could have contributed to this accident were removed by the moderator, apparently under "moderator discretion" rather than specific posting rules.
It would be an improvement if posters would avoid an attempt at political correctness re dehydration.

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Old 12th Jun 2020, 01:21
  #1167 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post

I'm not trying to be complete here,I'm just trying to understand what you really want. and why.
It's not what I want. It is what the NTSB detailed docket provides for accidents under their jurisdiction. Very full disclosure and transparency.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 02:19
  #1168 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by autoflight View Post
There is a PIA website where at least one post refers to both pilots fasting. Shouldn't be too hard to find. My detailed information or research indicating the reasons why "cultural" matters could have contributed to this accident were removed by the moderator, apparently under "moderator discretion" rather than specific posting rules.
It would be an improvement if posters would avoid an attempt at political correctness re dehydration.
Regarding Fasting, that has been the case for Muslim air crew for many/many years with no reported problems. Why would this one be different?
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 06:22
  #1169 (permalink)  
 
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Because it crashed.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 07:16
  #1170 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Longtimer View Post
Regarding Fasting, that has been the case for Muslim air crew for many/many years with no reported problems. Why would this one be different?
Discussed at length earlier in the thread.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 07:29
  #1171 (permalink)  
 
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Like everything else. Including the observation that everything was discussed earlier in the thread.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 08:09
  #1172 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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As previously mentioned wait for 22 June ~ Interim Report to be published
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 08:49
  #1173 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aterpster View Post
It's not what I want. It is what the NTSB detailed docket provides for accidents under their jurisdiction. Very full disclosure and transparency.
Though it's worth mentioning, in this general context, that anyone can read the detailed and complete CVR transcript from AF447 many times over, in French or in good translation, and while you can be sure what happened, why it happened will forever remain baffling.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 11:00
  #1174 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
As I explained already at the beginning of this thread , TWR controllers cannot issue a Go around instruction for that reason, Once a PIC reports established on the ILS ,he is on his own , It is up to them to manage his approach .TWR Controllers should not interfere unless the runway is blocked or becomes not avail . In addition in many modern Towers you cannot monitor the approach anyway ( too far away )
I know that !! But if I were an ATC controller watching a supposedly routine flight flaring gear up afew feet above the runway, I couldn't help yelling on the radio in order to warn the crew of the situation. "XXXX Go around !!" could be the first sentence coming into my mind. It would be a reflex and meanwhile I wouldn't think about the rules and the lawyers. Time for that later.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 11:05
  #1175 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
While a new tower at OPKC has been planned for several years, the current one (built in 1932) is atop the original terminal, not particularly high, and about 3/4 of the way down the runway from the 25 end (around 2.6 km from the 25L piano keys).
OK. Makes sense. This fact is in my opinion a satisfying reply to my earlier question.
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 11:21
  #1176 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by homebuilt View Post
I know that !! But if I were an ATC controller watching a supposedly routine flight flaring gear up afew feet above the runway, I couldn't help yelling on the radio in order to warn the crew of the situation. "XXXX Go around !!" could be the first sentence coming into my mind. It would be a reflex and meanwhile I wouldn't think about the rules and the lawyers. Time for that later.
Do we know that the gear were up during the approach? Or did they transit up owing to a botched GA process?

Report will (should) tell but it seems to me that TWR's inaction is unlikely to play a significant part in probable cause
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 11:38
  #1177 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by parkfell View Post
There would have to be justification to decline an ATC instruction. In this case the aircraft had established on the ILS (albeit grossly not stable) and the Captain was ‘comfortable’ with the situation, despite the circumstances which tragically unfolded.
I am a bit puzzled how that squares with a non-compliance report made by ATC controller, and formal notice sent to PIA regarding. https://www.aviation-accidents.net/w...ht-pk8303-.pdf
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 11:52
  #1178 (permalink)  
 
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If I were an ATC controller watching a supposedly routine flight flaring gear up afew feet above the runway, I couldn't help yelling on the radio in order to warn the crew of the situation. "XXXX Go around !!" could be the first sentence coming into my mind. It would be a reflex and meanwhile I wouldn't think about the rules and the lawyers. Time for that later.
This is where it gets difficult.
If you were watching a take off, and you saw flames coming from an engine, you would probably tempted to shout "Stop!".
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 11:56
  #1179 (permalink)  
 
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No Gear, go round would perhaps be a better call. Less likely focussed pilot would ignore the interfering ATC person!
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Old 12th Jun 2020, 12:04
  #1180 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Maninthebar View Post
Do we know that the gear were up during the approach? Or did they transit up owing to a botched GA process?

Report will (should) tell but it seems to me that TWR's inaction is unlikely to play a significant part in probable cause
Must have been up at least during flare, since the aircraft made a "scrape and go" on its engines. But true, one has to impatiently wait for a reliable report..
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