Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

DL Retiring its 777 Fleet

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

DL Retiring its 777 Fleet

Old 18th May 2020, 23:12
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by mattyj View Post
the trouble with the 787 is that the issues with the rollers haven’t gone away and cargo is the white horse at the moment and the 78 can’t carry any
What exactly are the issue with the rollers on the 787?
Seems that Avianca are able to do cargo only flights in the passenger version, and have been for a month:
https://theloadstar.com/avianca-ramp...oost-capacity/ (text not picture)
https://www.aircargonews.net/airline...nger-aircraft/
vikingivesterled is offline  
Old 18th May 2020, 23:25
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 66
Posts: 3,217
Originally Posted by Spooky 2 View Post
I believe UAL pilots include the 767-400 in their 767 category bid?
The 767-400 is included in the 757/767 common type rating. Yes, the flight deck is unique to the 767-400 (it's based on a 777 flight deck), but the layout is pretty much common (with bigger displays) and the procedures are common.
At one time, the plan was to extend the 767-400 flight deck to all new production 757/767, so keeping the type rating common was a high priority.
tdracer is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 09:37
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: back to the land of small pay and big bills
Age: 47
Posts: 1,109
The 78s don’t have good volume so can’t take larger sized pallets, and the problems with the rollers are the Rolls Royce (Trent) materials issues and also something to do with the bleed air system (or lack of) adds up to an engine that’s highly stressed and every issue they solve puts another part of the engine under stress. Also there’s an issue with resonance at some power settings. There’s a bunch in our company with EDTO limitations. The engine is fairly similar on the A350 and they’ve had the odd one go boof too.
mattyj is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 13:49
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,210
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
The 767-400 is included in the 757/767 common type rating. Yes, the flight deck is unique to the 767-400 (it's based on a 777 flight deck), but the layout is pretty much common (with bigger displays) and the procedures are common.
At one time, the plan was to extend the 767-400 flight deck to all new production 757/767, so keeping the type rating common was a high priority.
That's not what I meant TD. I was commenting on the fact that Delta, unlike UAL has a stand alone 767-400 category for pilots. They don't fly the 767-300 at all, just the -400. Where as I believe UAL comemingles the -300 and -400 flying and 757 as well. Agree the one type rating covers all the 767 models. There was abrief period where Delta expiermented with flying the 777 and 77-400 as a single category but for a host of reasons, that never got off the ground. I have never flown the -400 but have considerable experience in the 777 and 767 aircraft.

Last edited by Spooky 2; 19th May 2020 at 14:34.
Spooky 2 is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 13:54
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,172
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
The 767-400 is included in the 757/767 common type rating. Yes, the flight deck is unique to the 767-400 (it's based on a 777 flight deck)
I thought it was based on the 744...
Intruder is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 15:19
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,886
Originally Posted by Spooky 2 View Post
I was commenting on the fact that Delta, unlike UAL has a stand alone 767-400 category for pilots. They don't fly the 767-300 at all, just the -400. Where as I believe UAL comemingles the -300 and -400 flying and 757 as well. Agree the one type rating covers all the 767 models.
And under some of the overseas licenses, the type rating is specific to the engine type as well. Some U.S. airline fleets have both Pratt and Rolls engines on their 757's for example. That would require two type ratings with some non-FAA ATPL's I believe. Or, is it a type rating with two engine endorsements?

Anyway, as I commented earlier, the separate Delta B-764 bid (and pay) category may be a thing of the past as moves are made to 'right-size' the airline in the downturn.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 16:00
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,210
I have never heard of that engine specific issue on any non FAA rating and where I worked and we were 98% non FAA training. If you can identify an authority that mandated this I would be grateful. I know that Canada for instance, has a separate type for 737 Classic and NG, if that's what you mean?
Spooky 2 is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 17:01
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,886
Originally Posted by Spooky 2 View Post
I have never heard of that engine specific issue on any non FAA rating and where I worked and we were 98% non FAA training. If you can identify an authority that mandated this I would be grateful. I know that Canada for instance, has a separate type for 737 Classic and NG, if that's what you mean?
One example, in the past at least, was the United Arab Emirates GCAA (was it maybe the DGCA at one time?). I've got a UAE ATPL from years ago with an A300-600 type rating. It specifies the GE engines. I was told that I couldn't fly an A6 registered A306 with Pratts (if there was such a plane) without an additional type rating. It was apparently a legacy of the old UK CAA licensing scheme. The technical test had useful questions like 'What colour is the light in the [email protected] gyros?' and 'How many notches on the speedbrake quadrant?'
Airbubba is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 17:33
  #69 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
Is there an engine pix somewhere with six seats across and a trolly in the aisle
Almost!




MichaelKPIT is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 19:51
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 66
Posts: 3,217
Originally Posted by Intruder View Post
I thought it was based on the 744...
Nope. Large parts of the 777 flight deck were transplanted directly into the 767-400. The aisle stand/thrust levers are largely common, displays are largely common, etc.
Which, BTW, was easy to do because the 757, 767, and 777 all use the same flight deck structure (aka "Section 41"). That's why the nose profile of the 757 and 777 look a little odd (and why you step down into the 757 flight deck).
tdracer is offline  
Old 19th May 2020, 22:46
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,089
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Nope. Large parts of the 777 flight deck were transplanted directly into the 767-400. The aisle stand/thrust levers are largely common, displays are largely common, etc.
Which, BTW, was easy to do because the 757, 767, and 777 all use the same flight deck structure (aka "Section 41"). That's why the nose profile of the 757 and 777 look a little odd (and why you step down into the 757 flight deck).
I never thought the 757 nose looked odd. It has the same flat-ish underside as the 320. It is odd that you step down into the 757 and up into the 767 though.

What exactly is this section 41 that you speak of?
Check Airman is online now  
Old 19th May 2020, 23:56
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,886
Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
What exactly is this section 41 that you speak of?
It's the cockpit area of Boeings since at least the 707. The equipment bay below has been called the 'lower 41' for over half a century.

One story of origin is that the compartment was numbered 41 on the original 707 drawings.

I was told years ago by a guy in a white hat that it started 41 inches behind the nose datum but that doesn't seem to be true for the other section numbers.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 00:03
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 66
Posts: 3,217
I believe it's named section 41 because it started (probably at one time) 41 inches behind a datum near the nose of the plane. Or, so I was told many moons ago.
I don't know the origin, but I'm reasonably sure that's not it - Boeing calls all the fuselage bits "Section 4x" - e.g. the tail is Section 47/48.
tdracer is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 00:10
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,886
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
I don't know the origin, but I'm reasonably sure that's not it - Boeing calls all the fuselage bits "Section 4x" - e.g. the tail is Section 47/48.
Thanks, I've already changed my story after thinking about the other section numbers.
Airbubba is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 00:15
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Avon, CT, USA
Age: 65
Posts: 466
Ed, check your 6

Ed Bastian needs to lookout for his 6 as a hot-shot startup will buy and use those 777's and flame him.
ATPMBA is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 07:18
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,089
Ah so the entire nose area (forward of the L1 entry door maybe?) would be referred to as section 41 on the assembly line?
Check Airman is online now  
Old 20th May 2020, 07:22
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,089
Originally Posted by ATPMBA View Post
Ed Bastian needs to lookout for his 6 as a hot-shot startup will buy and use those 777's and flame him.
Maybe they knew something the rest of us didn't. US Airlines are parking 767's and 777's now.

Porter notes that the new Eastern is expected to acquire a fleet of several Boeing 767 and 777s, with at least five second-hand 777-200s joining in by May 2020.
https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/east...-3-comes-back/
Check Airman is online now  
Old 20th May 2020, 07:36
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 12,883
Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
Ah so the entire nose area (forward of the L1 entry door maybe?) would be referred to as section 41 on the assembly line?
Boeing conventional fuselage section numbers (787 shown):


DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 20th May 2020, 08:28
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,089
Much appreciated. Thanks DaveReidUK
Check Airman is online now  
Old 20th May 2020, 14:28
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,210
FWIW, I Checked with a former associate who works Regulatory STandards at Boeing. He is not aware of any such present day requirements.
Spooky 2 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.