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Even More Black Eye: Qatar Airways Flies Brand New Boeing 787-9’s Back To The US

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Even More Black Eye: Qatar Airways Flies Brand New Boeing 787-9’s Back To The US

Old 28th Dec 2019, 23:49
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Even More Black Eye: Qatar Airways Flies Brand New Boeing 787-9’s Back To The US

Qatar Airway Flies Brand New Boeing 787-9's Back To The US

...Yesterday (27th December 2019), four brand new 787-9 Dreamliners made their way to Doha for a Qatar Airways delivery. But when they got there, the airline returned them to the United States. Here’s why…

An unsatisfactory delivery
After a particularly brutal year, Boeing was quite keen to fulfill its Dreamliner order with Middle Eastern carrier Qatar Airways. The airframer wanted to ensure that it delivered some of Qatar Airways’ 787-9s by the end of the year. The airline was expecting seven aircraft before 2020. And, true to its word, Boeing delivered Qatar Airways the aircraft. Four 787-9 Dreamliners were spotted making their way to Qatar with the remaining three expected to arrive the following day. However, the delivery was not as smooth as it sounds. The four aircraft flown from Seattle to Doha on 27th December 2019 are now on their way back to the United States.

It appears that in Boeing’s haste to produce Qatar Airways’ delivery, a key detail was missed. The new state-of-the-art Qsuite that Qatar hoped to debut on the aircraft has not been fitted. And unfortunately, that’s a massive mistake that has led to the aircraft being sent back to Victorville in the United States. Not only does it look bad in terms of customer satisfaction but the integrity of both the airline and airframer’s environmental policies has also been tarnished. Not to mention the significant cost associated with flying the aircraft back and forth...
========

The Boeing's new debacle with the 787's occurred even after the safety and quality issues had been brought to light by whistleblowers' reports, the exploding battery incidents, the engine troubles, and so on...

Sources:
- https://simpleflying.com/qatar-airwa...ack-to-the-us/
- https://www.businessinsider.com/boei...19-8?r=US&IR=T
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 00:06
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Picture of the unistalled Q-Suite


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Old 29th Dec 2019, 00:13
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That seems less like an oversight than an attempt at filling in a triangle on the Pert chart. Good job MBA holders. Good job.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 00:21
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Just read in one of the linked website comments, that the delivery was to take place in Charleston, not in Qatar, and the lack of oversight might not be due to Boeing.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 01:06
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Boeing are not going to deliver circ $1B worth of aircraft without customer giving go ahead. Likely a/c delivered on schedule & completed local regulatory procedures before being repositioned to Victorville to await client selected interior (which may not have been ready on schedule). Just a guess but to suggest that the airframer rushed delivery to customer is difficult to believe.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 02:32
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Perhaps there was a penalty clause for none delivery, hence delivery took place to satisfy that contract requirement and the aircraft then returned for fitting out, stranger things have happened in life.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 03:05
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I don't believe this story one bit and I'd be inclined to suggest that some of the details are incorrect.

You don't just forget to install a cabin. Suites/seats etc are ordered with huge lead times and are delivered to a just in time production time scale..

I smell a rat.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 03:53
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Perhaps there was a penalty clause for none delivery, hence delivery took place to satisfy that contract requirement and the aircraft then returned for fitting out, stranger things have happened in life.
I thought legal "delivery" took place at the factory, not at the customer's home airport.

I'm sure there's a lot more to this than meets the eye
Most peculiar

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Old 29th Dec 2019, 04:04
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I thought legal "delivery" took place at the factory, not at the customer's home airport.
I've read that "delivery" often takes place offshore, in International airspace, where there is no liability for sales tax.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 04:53
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I've read that "delivery" often takes place offshore, in International airspace, where there is no liability for sales tax.
*ping*! I think you'll find that a certain Australian airline used to fly some 747s into international airspace for document execution but they were relatively short flights off the US west coast.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 05:49
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Perhaps there was a penalty clause for none delivery, hence delivery took place to satisfy that contract requirement and the aircraft then returned for fitting out, stranger things have happened in life.
This actually sounds plausible. Penalties for late/non-delivery must have been greater than the cost of "rectifying deficiencies". The sad part is that lawyers and accountants still run Boeing. And they obviously don't care about the company's reputation... what's left of it.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 07:09
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Or delivered with customer consent so B can book it as a sale?

Esp given the date it's not inconceivable that the delivery was agreed so B can book it as a sale (and reduced inventory) for their year end accounts
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 07:24
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Al Baker has form when it comes to messing manufacturers around, as Airbus also found out to its cost a couple of years ago with the last-minute cancellation by Qatar of some A350 deliveries.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 08:30
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I believe the QSuites were not fitted because...they don't fit! Apparently, someone thought it would just be simple to use the Qsuite as fitted in their 777s but, due to various dimension related factors, the Qsuites are too broad and a redesign has had to take place. Apparently, you can't just shave a couple of inches off the side!
I posted on this yesterday as the aircraft were en route to Victorville:
https://www.pprune.org/10649048-post267.html
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 08:35
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Al Baker has form when it comes to messing manufacturers around, as Airbus also found out to its cost a couple of years ago with the last-minute cancellation by Qatar of some A350 deliveries.
A slightly incorrect description. It was anything but "last minute cancellation". Qatar cancelled four planes that were overdue on delivery in accordance with the contract. Was it a nice thing to do? I don't know. Did they have full legal right to do it? Yes, they did, and Airbus agreed with that. As for "to its cost", the planes were sold to another customer.

And what does it have to do with Boeing sending incomplete planes to customers?
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 09:44
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It gets better/worse:
A7-BHC, A7-BHF & A7-BHG were delivered yesterday, making the trip from Paine Field to Doha.
As of now, they are all in an extended line over Greenland, making the trip from Doha to Victorville!
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 11:51
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
It gets better/worse:
A7-BHC, A7-BHF & A7-BHG were delivered yesterday, making the trip from Paine Field to Doha.
As of now, they are all in an extended line over Greenland, making the trip from Doha to Victorville!
All at 43,000ft, 480kts gs.




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Old 29th Dec 2019, 11:59
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
It gets better/worse:
A7-BHC, A7-BHF & A7-BHG were delivered yesterday, making the trip from Paine Field to Doha.
As of now, they are all in an extended line over Greenland, making the trip from Doha to Victorville!
So the frames DID, Hobbitt-like, go there and back again.

Speculation from me: this conforms to the 'delivery as per contract' theory. In this case the contract DID specify that the cash would be payable on receipt at Doha. Inconceivable that the non-existence of fittings was a surprise to the supplier or customer so we should assume that they are conniving* to support BA's cashflow.

* Other, less perjorative, terms are available
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 12:17
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Delivery of Boeings to non USA customers that I know of have all taken place off-shore, as previously mentioned, to avoid tax and the aircraft don't even get airborne until the final payment is in Boeing's bank account. The delivery of the 500th B737-200 was delayed whilst the final payment was transferred.
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Old 29th Dec 2019, 16:51
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Originally Posted by parabellum View Post
Delivery of Boeings to non USA customers that I know of have all taken place off-shore, as previously mentioned, to avoid tax and the aircraft don't even get airborne until the final payment is in Boeing's bank account. The delivery of the 500th B737-200 was delayed whilst the final payment was transferred.
Surely the cash must be in an escrow account. If it was in Boeing's a/c before takeoff, then tax would have to be paid?
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