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Easyjet FO anxiety attack

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Easyjet FO anxiety attack

Old 26th Sep 2019, 15:24
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
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Originally Posted by Reverserbucket View Post
I would but can't afford his fee Was told that in preparation for the Congressional hearing following the Colgan crash, wanted to charge another witness for a discussion beforehand to share background information. I understand she declined. Jeff Skiles is a really nice guy though.
Yes, Sully has leveraged that landing to build a profitable little empire. It's hard to blame him; that's pretty much how celebrity is monetized in our system.
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 20:55
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Given that his employer et al were throwing him under the bus

can you blame him ?
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Old 26th Sep 2019, 23:36
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nil further View Post
Given that his employer et al were throwing him under the bus

can you blame him ?
Nope. Not a bit.
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Old 28th Sep 2019, 15:26
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Two quick points: the prior flight's go around "The commander took control during the flare and executed a go-around."
That has to have had some impact on his own confidence.

Secondly, anxiety attacks can and do produce physiological symptoms, e.g. increased heart, respiratory rates, nausea etc.
It is the body's response to situations or triggers.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 01:04
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LEM View Post
License directly to the garbage bin.

license or medical?
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 01:07
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sonicbum View Post
While wishing our colleague a quick recovery and a bright career, I have to disagree with the above, as all those sensations should have been experienced during initial pilot training.
It is ok to put 250 hours guys on the RHS of an airliner IF there is enough "squeezing" during flight training to minimise any kind of unwanted outcome with paying customers onboard.
Anyway, our colleague might be reading us and here nobody is perfect, so again hope he will make it to retirement as a pilot but there are issues that need to be addressed -IMHO- with "modern" flight training.
“squeezing”? Hardly. They’re pampered. Euro pilots also don’t do full stalls. Unless they’re doing it by accident. That’s none of my business though. Keep up the written tests....
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 05:00
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4runner View Post


“squeezing”? Hardly. They’re pampered. Euro pilots also don’t do full stalls. Unless they’re doing it by accident. That’s none of my business though. Keep up the written tests....
Yeah, did both (FAA&JAA). JAA: 2 years of written test. FAA memorize Gleim book, 3 days, take an ATP written, and of you go, (but to get a good job you need a 4 year degree, preferably not related to aviation).... (neither of these requirements do anything to improve aviation safety).

Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 05:35
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4runner View Post
. Euro pilots also don’t do full stalls.
And you're wrong.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 06:41
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls.[/QUOTE]

unless you don’t know what to do, from initial flight training primacy. Then get an aircraft you’ve been taught is impossible to stall. Then stall said aircraft and keep it stalled until you hit the water. EASA pilots only conduct full stalls for instructor training.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 07:38
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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They taught me to be an instructor and I didn't know...
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 08:00
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4runner View Post
EASA pilots only conduct full stalls for instructor training.
Stop writing false information. Maybe some glamorous school doesn't do full stalls, but that's not "EASA pilots".

I think stall training was like in lesson number 5 of my PPL...
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 08:13
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bulldog89 View Post


Stop writing false information. Maybe some glamorous school doesn't do full stalls, but that's not "EASA pilots".

I think stall training was like in lesson number 5 of my PPL...
Including departure stalls and spintraining in a Cessna 150 aerobat, so that about EASA pilots is absolute BS.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 09:24
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by hans brinker View Post
...............Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls.
I am not sure that is true. Obviously modern passenger jet flying should never get anywhere near a stall or a spin. But, If a pilot has never experienced a full stall or a spin, then they haven’t practiced overcoming the natural (incorrect) reaction, nor can they develop full confidence in their ability to recover. This robs them of vital knowledge about their ability to control an aircraft in challenging conditions.

In a fully developed stall or spin, the first time you ever do it, there is no way you want to push forward on the stick - the instinct is to pull up, but you must push forward to unstall the wing in order to recover. A bit like skiing - you gain control when you lean forwards, but when you are learning to ski, the last thing you want to do when out of control whizzing down a slope is to lean forwards !

Without actually entering and recovering from such manoeuvres, there is no guarantee that you will overcome your natural, (and incorrect) instinct. The correct recovery needs to be practised and become a reflex - there is not time to think, “ah, OK, a stall, now what did my instructor say I had to do to recover?”

I wonder if F/O Bonin on AF447 had ever practiced full stalls? I suspect not.




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Old 29th Sep 2019, 09:47
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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What’s this got to do Anxiety Attacks ?
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 10:55
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nil further View Post
What’s this got to do Anxiety Attacks ?
You are correct, slowly leaving the thread "anxiety", but the further your personal capabilities are past the operational boundaries of the aircraft, the more relaxed you will be operating within the flight enveloppe. You cannot train aerobatics on an average aircraft. Hence what is your opinion about MPL? Also see the tread FAA manual flight.

At the company I flew, manual flight is a big part of training (I'm retired now after 20k+ hrs on the 737)

Anxiety is a state of mind that can happen to everybody, but hands-on training will make the chance for anxiety smaller.

(apology if my English is a bit shaky!)

Henri
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 10:55
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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I think the idea is that better manual handling will give more confidence , and therefore people will be less anxious about handling.

Our current Boeing sim includes steep turns and stalling . Good fun and good to get the scan going again.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 14:22
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 4runner View Post


Doing full stalls doesn't improve safety nearly as much as keeping aircraft out of stalls.


unless you don’t know what to do, from initial flight training primacy. Then get an aircraft you’ve been taught is impossible to stall. Then stall said aircraft and keep it stalled until you hit the water. EASA pilots only conduct full stalls for instructor training.
[/QUOTE]

No Airbus pilot is taught an Airbus is impossible to stall, all receive training while in alternate law with the stall warning. The pilot that held the stick back on AF447 did a horrible job, but let’s not pretend that means no EASA pilot knows how to fly.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 14:31
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post


I am not sure that is true. Obviously modern passenger jet flying should never get anywhere near a stall or a spin. But, If a pilot has never experienced a full stall or a spin, then they haven’t practiced overcoming the natural (incorrect) reaction, nor can they develop full confidence in their ability to recover. This robs them of vital knowledge about their ability to control an aircraft in challenging conditions.

In a fully developed stall or spin, the first time you ever do it, there is no way you want to push forward on the stick - the instinct is to pull up, but you must push forward to unstall the wing in order to recover. A bit like skiing - you gain control when you lean forwards, but when you are learning to ski, the last thing you want to do when out of control whizzing down a slope is to lean forwards !

Without actually entering and recovering from such manoeuvres, there is no guarantee that you will overcome your natural, (and incorrect) instinct. The correct recovery needs to be practised and become a reflex - there is not time to think, “ah, OK, a stall, now what did my instructor say I had to do to recover?”

I wonder if F/O Bonin on AF447 had ever practiced full stalls? I suspect not.





I ski, and I have taught my kids how to ski and I agree pilots should be taught all the basics, and I support training full stalls, I did in primary training, and we do them in Upset recovery training on the A320. I still think AF447 should have been prevented by the PNF/PM by fully taking control as he saw Bonin zooming up. Waiting for the stall to develop and still only partially take control did nothing. As the more experienced pilot, and the acting PIC, he should have pushed the takeover button and said “my control” the moment the AP disconnected at night in weather.
Not getting in trouble beats getting out of trouble.
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Old 29th Sep 2019, 15:49
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Hi Hans, I think we agree with each other.

Obviously prevention is better than a cure, but when the subject of this thread feels they cannot remain in the cockpit for a challenging landing - which is the very essence of being a pilot - I ask myself why. What was missing from their training such that a challenging approach and landing caused so much anxiety that they left the cockpit?

Or, possibly, we are all barking up the wrong tree?


Last edited by Uplinker; 30th Sep 2019 at 22:44.
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