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Hard times for Norwegian

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Hard times for Norwegian

Old 16th Oct 2020, 09:39
  #841 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Italy
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Don't get me wrong, I have all the sympathy in the world for the crew who find themselves in this predicament by no fault of their own.

However.

Generally speaking, do you think governments should bail out financially irresponsible companies at the expense of more prudent ones? Maybe it's time for the market to adjust to a new reality and for some of the "unhealthy" over capacity to go away.
SmokeAndNoise is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2020, 14:54
  #842 (permalink)  
 
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Youíd have to define where you draw that line . Free market economy and all that . Risk often leads to reward .

Personally Iíd rather see a couple of the companies that treat their crews like 1880s workhouse inhabitants disappear .
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 16:23
  #843 (permalink)  
 
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Risk leads to reward - or defeat. Otherwise it isn't risk. Question here is; whose defeat? The company that took the risk or someone else? There isn't enough chairs for everyone in the current market.

...so whilst I agree with your statement above, state aid to Norwegian would not achieve this goal. Proper regulation and governance would.

Personally I think the most sensible solution would be for Norwegian to make its own destiny. If required, the various States where Norwegian crew were paying their taxes, should pay salaries and recency training until such time the crews are able to find employment again. Hopefully with financially responsible, decent airlines...
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 18:02
  #844 (permalink)  
 
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Well maybe the government in Norway, seems a lot of these routes socially important and steps in cover those....and the aircraft lessors who have a bucket load of 78s idle, bail out the LH restart ?

There’s ways it could still flourish , if handled carefully
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 21:36
  #845 (permalink)  
 
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SmokeAndNoise

Why should they receive much more favourable treatment than waiters, hairdressers, salesmen, fitness-trainers ? I see no reason at all.
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Old 17th Oct 2020, 08:49
  #846 (permalink)  
 
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Norwegian Air has confirmed plans to slash its long-haul fleet of Boeing 787 aircraft which form the basis of the carrier’s base at London Gatwick.

Geir Karlsen, Norwegian Air chief financial officer, said: “We have too many long-haul aircraft. We are working to reduce the number.”
Norwegian chief financial officer Geir Karlsen says. ”When it comes to the 787s, that is a difficult task – at least in this market – to divest as many as 15, 16, 17 of them.”
The carrier operates 37 Dreamliners – 26 of which are leased. That adds a further complication to the situation as Norwegian’s lessors are now equity holders in the airline following the debt-for-equity restructuring in May which paved the way for the carrier’s survival.

“We are discussing already alternatives with these [lessors] where we have to find a solution to take down the capacity on long-haul,” says Karlsen. “It’s not going to be easy, it’s a very different market compared to the short-haul market with regards to liquidity and how easy it is to divest, but we need to find a solution.”
11 Airframes which are not leased, less 2 just sold:

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-boeing-787-sale/

That only leaves 9 airframes to deal with as the "leased" ones are basically costing them nothing, other than maintenance, which is being accrued as a debt.

Looks like the USA routes from LGW are no longer starting Dec 9th, most/all now appear mid March 2021, which strangely is in line with the original rescue plan.

Last edited by Kirks gusset; 20th Oct 2020 at 18:30.
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 10:21
  #847 (permalink)  
 
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For those of us accused of not knowing the facts, or more than management, or making wild speculations!

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...as-of-23oct20/

At least some good new for the LH LGW crews..



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Old 28th Oct 2020, 12:28
  #848 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, Iíll go and book with them now and take a gamble with my money..... not!
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Old 28th Oct 2020, 13:50
  #849 (permalink)  
 
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That sounds positive, complete opposite on what was reported on PPJN
Heathrow09L is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2020, 08:09
  #850 (permalink)  
 
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Norwegian Government have held a press conference where they seem to have ruled out investment.

https://apple.news/A8vQDJ9mfQ-mblPAnZcAD5w
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 10:59
  #851 (permalink)  
 
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Not the best news combined with the fall in revenues of 96% for October.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...clines-new-aid

Looks like they may be supported on "Domestic" routes only, and if Wizz picks up the baton for international flights that takes pressure off the government.

The Oslo stock exchange said: “NAS [Norwegian Air Shuttle] is currently evaluating the effects of the current situation with an aim to safeguard the interest of all stakeholders.”
This scenario is similar to the Olympic collapse where PSO routes were supported only.

Needs a golden egg and quickly

Last edited by Kirks gusset; 9th Nov 2020 at 14:09.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 16:33
  #852 (permalink)  
 
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True, no help from the norwegian government. This is fair enough, the company has no future post corona,without the neccessary muscles to fight with Ryanair, Wizz Air and Easy Jet.
No investor wishes to put money into this bottomless hole, all who have done so over the last few years have burnt their fingers.
It is better to likvidate the company and start over, Braathen is already working on starting a new airline in Norway.
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Old 9th Nov 2020, 20:13
  #853 (permalink)  
 
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15 of the remaining 21 aircraft in production grounded as of tomorrow. 1600 more staff on furlough.
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 05:29
  #854 (permalink)  
 
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It is curious to see that from one side the Norway government scream against Wizz (working conditions, no-union allowed policy and so on....) and on the other side sentence to death Norwegian (always been way more ethical then Wizz, Ryanair and others) opening de facto the traffic and the country to those unethical reality.
Itís like you stand against racism then you kick out of your porch your cousin letting a redneck arian brotherhood trailer park style guy camp there 😒
May the government aim to some kind of negotiation?
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 07:31
  #855 (permalink)  
 
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Screaming doesn’t cost 5-6 billion NOK (the amount Norwegian asked for). The Chinese and Irish owners refuse to put a cent into their company, so why should the government?
They can’t refuse Wizz from flying in Norway, but the right to join a union is fundamental in Norway. Wizz going head on against this may not the smartest thing to do.
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 07:41
  #856 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn't Norwegian the company that based European pilots in Bangkok, with self employment agency contracts from Singapore. And operated said pilots between london and New York. Don't misunderstand me, I have no ax to grind with Norwegian, but in my eyes they don't hold any sort of moral high ground in relation to worker rights.
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 07:42
  #857 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I agree with you about the cost, still a contradictory behavior i guess. Especially when not supporting Norwegianís operations will lead eventually in termination of many norwegian people. Playing devilís advocate: did they withdraw also support to the others (SAS....)?
I donít know as my knowledge on this particular thread is marginal.
Regarding Norwegian business plan....without RR and MAX issues you believe that with almost 200 aircraft wouldnít been a good gig anyway?
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 07:53
  #858 (permalink)  
 
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Further reporting from Reuters...

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-no...-idUKKBN27Q0N2
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Old 10th Nov 2020, 09:17
  #859 (permalink)  
 
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This about sums it up:
Any dreams of 787 flying are just that at the moment. Liquidation and buyout of the LH may be an option.
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Old 11th Nov 2020, 06:28
  #860 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I see there is a fundraiser for Norwegian that pilots/staff are donating too for appreciation of how much Norwegian have given them, sadly I think it’s been poor leadership and abuse of pilots terms and conditions even in the stable period, I hope the money given or donated to this fundraiser doesn’t end up in the directors back pocket.
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