Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Hard times for Norwegian

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Hard times for Norwegian

Old 20th Apr 2020, 08:40
  #381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 327
Bond holders can normally extract a few cents in the dollar following administration, (unlike shareholders). I recall Gatwick slots were used as collateral elsewhere(?), but theyre likely to have valid claims on other liquidation assets, so it comes down to whether that's worth more than swapping the positions for equity. It's quite common for private equity to go short on the shares and long on the bonds in the dying days of a company.
Joe le Taxi is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 11:06
  #382 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 170
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhor.../#61337227d6d8
8che is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 11:08
  #383 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 866
Already posted see #373 above.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 11:26
  #384 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Euroland
Posts: 147
https://www.aftonbladet.se/minekonom...norwegianbolag
https://reut.rs/3brh4Zs
Norway's pilot and cabin companies in Sweden and Denmark are filing for bankruptcy, according to a press release from the company.
The decision applies to four subsidiaries: Pilot Services Sweden AB, Norwegian Pilot Services Denmark ApS, Norwegian Cabin Services Denmark ApS and Norwegian Air Resources Denmark LH ApS. Norwegian has also terminated its agreements with the companies OSM Aviation and Rishworth.
"The pilots and cabin crew are mainly employed by various subsidiaries in the Norwegian group. Despite all the measures taken by the company to reduce costs, unfortunately there is no other alternative for the board of these companies than to apply for bankruptcy," the company writes in the press release.
The companies to which the bankruptcy petition applies and the agreements terminated affect a total of 1,571 pilots and 3,124 cabin employees in Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Spain, the UK and the US, the company writes.
The company will hold a press conference during the afternoon.

Last edited by Tom!; 20th Apr 2020 at 11:57.
Tom! is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 12:10
  #385 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 204
Very much as predicted a couple of weeks back, cut the limbs off and save core (K area) live (maybe) to fight another day.

Sad news, but that amount of debt is no match for Covid-19
EIFFS is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 14:21
  #386 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Earth
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by EIFFS View Post
Very much as predicted a couple of weeks back, cut the limbs off and save core (K area) live (maybe) to fight another day.

Sad news, but that amount of debt is no match for Covid-19
Again, they're getting rid of staff employment subsidiaries which were already laid off anyway. That doesn't change the debt pile as they had no assets. Those companies are like agencies in their respective countries. No bondholder or government (including Norway) will jump into an €8,000 million debt pile to keep an small operation in Norway.

Also, I don't think it's coincidental that they have made headlines with Sweden and Denmark, as both countries denied help to norwegian.
737lpa is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 16:38
  #387 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 651
Credit Suisse writes that the airline’s moves are “suggesting to us it may close its Gatwick/Spanish bases”. ? didn't they already state this as part of the planned "restructure" or was this the worst kept secret in history! thoughts go out for the people effected by this mess, not only crews but handlers and ground staff also ,and the way things are shaping up at Gatwick "ghost town" lights off at the end of the tunnel for the time being sadly. If there is any resurgence they should commit to taking on the displaced crews as a priority rather than come up with some more devious employment models in the name of "cost reduction"
Kirks gusset is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:03
  #388 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Ilmington, Warwickshire
Posts: 1
Dear Colleagues

As reported earlier BALPA met in conference with the CEO & COO of OSM along with union representatives from across the Norwegian network.

We can report from the UK that all crews will remain employed by OSM, and OSM are actively pursuing the Job Retention Scheme for their employees.

BALPA is in constant contact with OSM, and we aim to provide members with a more detailed update via a conference meeting tomorrow. Members will be invited to participate via an email tomorrow.

During the OSM meeting OSMs’ CEO Espen Høiby provided the following press release:

Statement regarding Norwegian’s termination of agreement with OSM Aviation

We regret that Norwegian has chosen to terminate the agreement with OSM Aviation. We have kept a close dialogue with the company and had hoped that the agreement could be continued in some form until the airline receives crisis funds from the Norwegian authorities. In the upcoming days, we will evaluate the consequences for OSM Aviation and our employees.

Our goal is to retain our skilled employees so that we may quickly provide Norwegian and other airlines with pilots and cabin crew as soon as government restrictions cease, and people once again will have the opportunity to travel. The airlines have suffered huge losses as a result of the covid-19 crisis.

We would like to emphasise that OSM Aviation has great sympathy with the difficult situation that Norwegian and the rest of the aviation and tourism industry are facing. We have done everything we can to support Norwegian and other customers after the outbreak of the covid-19 epidemic and have maintained a close and good cooperation around the suspension or layoffs of air crew in many countries.

We do not agree with Norwegian on the grounds of termination of the agreement with OSM Aviation. At this point, however, we focus primarily on Norwegian coming to an agreement with their owners and creditors so that the company may qualify for crisis assistance from the authorities and can continue working with OSM Aviation as an important partner.
BehindBlueEyes is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:09
  #389 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 59
Great work by BALPA once again .... Keep everyone employed by ... nobody
Jonnyknoxville is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:29
  #390 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by Jonnyknoxville View Post
Great work by BALPA once again .... Keep everyone employed by ... nobody
What else do you suggest that Balpa does?

At least now the crews can be furloughed and get £2500 for the government. Otherwise it would be off to the Job Centre and down to Job Seekers Allowance at £97 every 14 days. I know what figure I prefer to receive for the next few months.
CEJM is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:33
  #391 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 0
Better than nothing, but rearranging deckchairs on he titanic if NAS have decided to ditch everything outside Norway
Meester proach is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 17:40
  #392 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
Better than nothing, but rearranging deckchairs on he titanic if NAS have decided to ditch everything outside Norway
Very true Meester but 3 months on furlough will at least give everybody some time to collect their thoughts. Being made redundant and losing your income overnight is even more stressful. Especially when at the moment nobody is hiring. In 3 months time the situation MAY be a bit clearer.
CEJM is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 20:35
  #393 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 130
Good riddance to NAS

I am glad the families of these crews will be kept afloat with the JRS over the coming months but what do people expect working for companies with these dodgy contract arrangements? I appreciate no one could forsee Covid 19 but these men and women working for the likes of Wizz Air or Norweigen deserve very little sympathy. We are all responsible for the decisions we make, and who our employer is has to be among the biggest ones we have control over.

I flew with a great Captain years ago who told me how he had spent a few days in a row moping about his house as a young man after some unfortunate luck. His father called him into the living room and told him to go upstairs and look himself in the mirror and tell himself: 'Everything is my F-ing fault'... He still tells himself this every day, and the guy is a legend.

Its like Ryanair crews complaining they get treated like shit, what do you expect?! We live in a world, and particularly an industry, where nobody is prepared to take responsibility for where they end up.
Whitemonk Returns is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 20:52
  #394 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: EU
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by Whitemonk Returns View Post
I am glad the families of these crews will be kept afloat with the JRS over the coming months but what do people expect working for companies with these dodgy contract arrangements? I appreciate no one could forsee Covid 19 but these men and women working for the likes of Wizz Air or Norweigen deserve very little sympathy. We are all responsible for the decisions we make, and who our employer is has to be among the biggest ones we have control over.

I flew with a great Captain years ago who told me how he had spent a few days in a row moping about his house as a young man after some unfortunate luck. His father called him into the living room and told him to go upstairs and look himself in the mirror and tell himself: 'Everything is my F-ing fault'... He still tells himself this every day, and the guy is a legend.

Its like Ryanair crews complaining they get treated like shit, what do you expect?! We live in a world, and particularly an industry, where nobody is prepared to take responsibility for where they end up.
What a load of bs
And that legend of yours needs to test for depression
iome is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 20:56
  #395 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: England
Posts: 387
Plum, others are allowed to have opinions contrary to your own. Those views may be unpalatable but its hardly a secret as to the disaster that is unfolding. Im sure that there is something about insulting comments in the T&Cs.
Capt Scribble is online now  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 21:00
  #396 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gods waiting room!
Posts: 111
And my opinion still stands.
plumponpies is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 21:24
  #397 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 651
Surely if OSM are owed money from NAS, they are a creditor and the contract between OSM and NAS would not be officially terminated until the funds were paid? Of course it's a tricky position as OSM want to/hope to work with NAS in the future, but isn't this going to be a bit of a brain teaser for the UK Government under the JRS as the "jobs" don't actually exist anymore, unless OSM argue they want to keep "crew on the books" after the 3 months JRS, in which case OSM then are picking the baby up with the bath water. I don't understand these figures either? https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0...TED/financials
5 million assets?
Kirks gusset is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 22:09
  #398 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Brexland
Posts: 130
[QUOTE=.the contract arrangements are no better or worse than a lot of other deals.[/QUOTE]

And therein lies the point. As pilots we pride ourselves on our decision making in the aircraft yet refuse to apply the same levels of long term planning to our own careers. Look at the basket case of companies who are dead or on life support right now. NAS, SAA, Virigin? Anyone who couldn't see the writing on the wall pre Covid, during the greatest jobs market over the last 5 years we will likely see for some time, really needs to look in that mirror. I don't rejoice in the difficulties we are all facing and I genuinely wish the best for all our grounded colleagues in the coming months, but shed a tear for NAS? ... I think not.
Whitemonk Returns is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 22:26
  #399 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 866
Whitemonk Returns whilst I take your point to a certain extent, nobody could have predicted this. There are pilots at easyJet and BA who are desperately worrying about their prospects FFS, I’m one of them. The two most secure jobs in aviation. Should I have planned for this and never joined BA or taken out a mortgage? Have some decorum, people are really struggling.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2020, 22:58
  #400 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere close to me
Posts: 729
So what is the reality of the Norwegian story here?

Now somebody please tell me if I am wrong.
Norwegian cutting ties with OSM and other Norwegian subsidiaries, OSM and these Norwegian Subsidiaries are independent companies, basically this is NAS way to get rid of XX millions of liabilities and debts.

As far as I understand, this was one of the main reasons Norwegian in Norway went on strike a few years ago, as now Norwegian still have all the aircraft, but severed their ties with these companies who they had an agreement.

Don't forget that these are all subsidiaries of Norwegian, and Norwegian have now shown the world what they were designed for, cut their losses while they can and save the remaining part of the airline in case of such an economic downturn.

We do not need to go very far back in this thread, where I was warning against exactly this issue, and there were people gloating that they had the same job security as anyone else in the company, absolute BS.

NAS knows the government will not provide support for all the subsidiaries around the world, but now a slimmed down NAS, where they main market is Scandinavia / Norway, that's a different story, they will probably get support to preserve the Norwegian Core contracts / jobs.

So OSM now have X amount of pilots, but OSM don't have a single aircraft, and these subsidiaries are all going bankrupt and it will not effect Norwegian one dot, they have just been able to offload 4500 crew in one day, from their payroll with this despicable business model.

Still NAS have all the aircraft, so if they now get government help, and they can get back to business, they will just setup a new agency to hire pilots, pilots who will not be working for an airline, but job agency, without any assets.

Wake up guys, this is a shambles.
truckflyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.