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Smartwings B738 over Aegean Sea on Aug 22nd 2019

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Smartwings B738 over Aegean Sea on Aug 22nd 2019

Old 29th Aug 2019, 10:41
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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I´d advise for a little caution with that Austrianwings article.

First of all, Austrianwings does not enjoy the highest reputation as a news source. I´d liken it to the Daily Mail or similar.

Secondly, all this article does is *claim* that the name of Smartwings chief pilot has been found in Czech media. " Bereits kurz nach dem Vorfall wurde in Branchenkreisen sowie in tschechischen Medien immer wieder ein Name genannt: Pavel Vesely. " translates as: "Already shortly after the incident, circles and the Czech media repeatedly reported one name: P. V.". Nowhere in this article is it claimed that Austrianwings had achieved own investigation results:

"Mehrere Mailanfragen an die Smartwings-Pressestelle und an Pavel Vesely selbst, ob er tatsächlich der Pilot des betreffenden Fluges war, blieben bis dato unbeantwortet. Sollte Vesely der Pilot in Command gewesen sein, würde das generelle Fragen nach der Sicherheitskultur im Unternehmen aufwerfen."

...translates as: "Multiple email requests for information directed to Smartwings public relation and P. V. himself, asking whether or not he was indeed piloting the concerned flight remained unanswered until now. Should V. have been PIC, it would pose some general questions on the companies safety culture."

So, to sum it up, the quoted article makes much ado about very little except for rehashing some (as to now) rumours and is IMHO not furthering the issue at hand.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:00
  #82 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tu.114 View Post
I´d advise for a little caution with that Austrianwings article.

First of all, Austrianwings does not enjoy the highest reputation as a news source. I´d liken it to the Daily Mail or similar.

Secondly, all this article does is *claim* that the name of Smartwings chief pilot has been found in Czech media. " Bereits kurz nach dem Vorfall wurde in Branchenkreisen sowie in tschechischen Medien immer wieder ein Name genannt: Pavel Vesely. " translates as: "Already shortly after the incident, circles and the Czech media repeatedly reported one name: P. V.". Nowhere in this article is it claimed that Austrianwings had achieved own investigation results:

"Mehrere Mailanfragen an die Smartwings-Pressestelle und an Pavel Vesely selbst, ob er tatsächlich der Pilot des betreffenden Fluges war, blieben bis dato unbeantwortet. Sollte Vesely der Pilot in Command gewesen sein, würde das generelle Fragen nach der Sicherheitskultur im Unternehmen aufwerfen."

...translates as: "Multiple email requests for information directed to Smartwings public relation and P. V. himself, asking whether or not he was indeed piloting the concerned flight remained unanswered until now. Should V. have been PIC, it would pose some general questions on the companies safety culture."

So, to sum it up, the quoted article makes much ado about very little except for rehashing some (as to now) rumours and is IMHO not furthering the issue at hand.
Comparing austrianwings with DM is just ridiculous.

Secondly, multiple email requests directed to Smartwings public relation and P. V. himself are showing clearly austrianwing's effort to shed some light on the dark.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:31
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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I think I understand that the 'who the Cpt was' makes the situation 'even worse'. But it is so bad to start with, and "apparently" it is a Company problem, that in the end does not (should not) matter who was flying that day?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 11:32
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Then let me clarify my point.
There may be an "effort to shed some light", but did it come to fruition? Did Austrianwings find out anything on the issue it spreads rumours on? It would have befitted a reputable media house to wait until they had "hardened" their accusations instead of blaring them out as mere insinuations. Compare the title as well, bearing a question mark instead of a full stop. All those are signs of yellow press style journalism.

The same can be said for the anonymous quotations of supposed experts - a reputable publication would have at least stated that the name of the contribuant is known to them but not stated for some reason. Also, typically of Austrianwings, the article is not signed by any author, just "red" for redaction.

So again, Austrianwings is in my opinion not a reputable news outlet and should be in no ways considered authoritative when it comes to such an investigation.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 13:18
  #85 (permalink)  
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Smartwings MEMO published by zdopravy.cz



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Old 29th Aug 2019, 17:06
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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For those not speaking Czech, the gist of the memo above is a request for Smartwings employees "not to comment on social networks and publish internal information on internet". It also says that "several gross violations" of the company policy prohibiting such behaviour are being investigated.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 17:19
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It also says that "several gross violations" of the company policy prohibiting such behaviour are being investigated.
Hmm, yet they don't seem to take the opportunity to deny it happened. They only want to scare their personnel. Now that kind of behaviour makes me even more suspicious.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 17:42
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
Hmm, yet they don't seem to take the opportunity to deny it happened. They only want to scare their personnel. Now that kind of behaviour makes me even more suspicious.
I wonder why the authorities do not pull the AOC. The CVR seems already be unavailable. If the PIC was an officer of the airline, they have no place in this BIZ.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 19:09
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EDLB View Post


I wonder why the authorities do not pull the AOC. The CVR seems already be unavailable. If the PIC was an officer of the airline, they have no place in this BIZ.
And if he is not, they do ?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 21:47
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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Any source on the CVR being erased already? Or since the plane went back into ops is had been overwrote? Does EASA not go straight to the plane and pull the data when an illegal fuel landing is reported?
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 23:11
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by booze View Post
This is a rumour network. But sure, here's a hint: how does ATC flt.pln PIC name crosschecked against company docs sounds like?
It's not a requirement to have the name of the PIC shown on the ATC flight plan.
Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
This "gentleman" from Budapest ATC should have his license pulled (if he really is what he claims to be). This is NOT information intended for public circulation, give your statement to a board of inquiry OR the states CAA and thats it.
Definitely the main problem of the whole occurence...
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 09:00
  #92 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
This "gentleman" from Budapest ATC should have his license pulled (if he really is what he claims to be). This is NOT information intended for public circulation, give your statement to a board of inquiry OR the states CAA and thats it.
Don't shoot the messenger.
BTW it took the effort of an aviation website to uncover this incident.

Last edited by gearlever; 30th Aug 2019 at 09:29.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 09:12
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gearlever View Post
Don't shoot the messenger.
BTW it took the effort of an aviation website to cover up this incident.
Maybe its different in Hungary, but I know several countries that have laws in place forbidding to listen in on radio comms. Posting this stuff on a website would clearly be a breach IMO. And WHO can tell that this statement is a 100% the truth ? Or even 90%. (Apart from the failed donk, which seems to be a fact undisputed...)

Moreover and more of a problem is the pre-justice done. An inquiry board should not have the public opinion towering over them. (as it happens so often!)

Your second sentence does not make sense to me - you meant to un - cover ?
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 09:15
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TBSC View Post

Definitely the main problem of the whole occurence...
Never said that and never meant that. (that was more of an overreaction to make the "pull their (the crew) licenses lot" think a bit. I failed, I admit it)

Appreciate your sense of irony though.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 09:30
  #95 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post

Your second sentence does not make sense to me - you meant to un - cover ?
Of course, thx.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 13:59
  #96 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Consol View Post
The Hungarian ATC person made a seemingly reasonable and informed submission. I've had reason to comment on poor aviation safety in my career too. Do you really think safety is maintained by aviation authority audits of paperwork and a few information bulletins? Sometimes you have to call out bad practice for what it is.

Remember every dodgy operator out there puts pressure on the the ones that do it right to further cut costs, training, maintenance and customer service. We are in a race to the bottom on this industry and we may have seen an example of why this is so.
Brilliant post!
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 01:05
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Is it just me or are people completely missing the plot here.
A certified airline carried well over 100 passengers for several hundred miles in a twin with a failed engine and low fuel warnings, contrary to a truckload of regulations.
In response, posters want to focus on the perceived illegality of listening to A to G communications.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 11:22
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Is it just me or are people completely missing the plot here.
A certified airline carried well over 100 passengers for several hundred miles in a twin with a failed engine and low fuel warnings, contrary to a truckload of regulations.
In response, posters want to focus on the perceived illegality of listening to A to G communications.
Nope. You are completely right. This thread has drifted aka "don't shoot the messenger": we do need whistleblowers as long as we have people working together for example at the Czech CAA and Smartwings in order to keep things swept under the carpet. See previous posts on "race to the bottom" subject.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 12:33
  #99 (permalink)  
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EASA versus FAA

While FAA is very clear on OEI issues, are there similar EASA regulations?
Thx

CFR § 121.565 Engine inoperative: Landing; reporting.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, whenever an airplane engine fails or whenever an engine is shutdown to prevent possible damage, the pilot in command must land the airplane at the nearest suitable airport, in point of time, at which a safe landing can be made.

(b) If not more than one engine of an airplane that has three or more engines fails or is shut down to prevent possible damage, the pilot-in-command may proceed to an airport that the pilot selects if, after considering the following, the pilot makes a reasonable decision that proceeding to that airport is as safe as landing at the nearest suitable airport:
(1) The nature of the malfunction and the possible mechanical difficulties that may occur if flight is continued.
(2) The altitude, weight, and useable fuel at the time that the engine is shutdown.
(3) The weather conditions en route and at possible landing points.
(4) The air traffic congestion.
(5) The kind of terrain.
(6) His familiarity with the airport to be used.

(c) The pilot-in-command must report each engine shutdown in flight to the appropriate communication facility as soon as practicable and must keep that facility fully informed of the progress of the flight.

(d) If the pilot in command lands at an airport other than the nearest suitable airport, in point of time, he or she shall (upon completing the trip) send a written report, in duplicate, to his or her director of operations stating the reasons for determining that the selection of an airport, other than the nearest airport, was as safe a course of action as landing at the nearest suitable airport. The director of operations shall, within 10 days after the pilot returns to his or her home base, send a copy of this report with the director of operation's comments to the responsible Flight Standards office.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 15:20
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Things are simple.

EASA OPA.GEN.160 Occurrence Reporting:
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/def...ORA.pdf#page15

All European airlines should report to the competent authority any occurrence of one of the following:
http://emsa.europa.eu/retro/Docs/mar...e_200342ec.pdf

Aircraft technical, iii, b: ”Flameout, shutdown or malfunction of any engine.“

Now if the airline actually reported that, this is another thing...
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