BA almost hits the wall!
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Having used this airport on many occasions flying a B738 I simply cant understand why that Barbie jet needed to be so low, my initial reaction is the image is distorted by distance use of a telephoto lens or photoshop.
Without doubt the airfield has its challenges especially the runway uphill gradient my give the illusion of being high on the approach but I would expect this to be covered in the briefing for the airfield and accounted for when flying the approach.
With the right amount of respect and hand flying skills the airfield is safe to use as long as it is approached with the attitude that if the picture does not look right you go around and make another approach.
Without doubt the airfield has its challenges especially the runway uphill gradient my give the illusion of being high on the approach but I would expect this to be covered in the briefing for the airfield and accounted for when flying the approach.
With the right amount of respect and hand flying skills the airfield is safe to use as long as it is approached with the attitude that if the picture does not look right you go around and make another approach.
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These clowns need to be shown the door. Go and hire something for showboating.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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The "gentlemen" on here, especially Mr.767 jock have never made any mistake - or did they just fly in an era were not thousands for total p.... surrounding the airfields with cameras and smartphones ? Plus a press, which lustfully hangs these dudes out to dry without being ever held accountable for anything in their miserable lives... give the guys a sim lesson and case closed.
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Could we maybe spare some defence for the PF here? I don’t profess to know the exact ins and out with this however could this be a result of training? Could this be a symptom of relatively unchallenging flying from ILS to ILS with almost exclusive reference to the flight director? 9/10 when you give someone with this sort of background a NPA to reasonably limited runway with little to no PAPI guidance, it isn’t going to go very well. The art of handling the final stages of an approach referencing pitch & thrust and eyeball mark one is somewhat lost on people. That’s something that’s needed to be addressed for considerable time now. Too many pilots don’t challenge themselves, allow themselves or are even allowed to be challenged. A symptom of modern airline flying that comes from the very top in many outfits.
I would also add that if this is simply an approach that got too low in error (rather than intention) then what was the PM doing?
I would also add that if this is simply an approach that got too low in error (rather than intention) then what was the PM doing?
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Could it be that they are used to landing in LCY where they try to touchdown as near the start as possible and something went wrong here and combined with the uphill slope it aggravated the situation?
It does look like the aircraft is struggling to maintain an acceptable glidepath and needs all the pitch it can get, but then again the embraers seem to have a high pitch angle even during 'normal' approaches. There is an unlimited list of potential causes for them ending up low and we may be able to learn something from it.
It does look like the aircraft is struggling to maintain an acceptable glidepath and needs all the pitch it can get, but then again the embraers seem to have a high pitch angle even during 'normal' approaches. There is an unlimited list of potential causes for them ending up low and we may be able to learn something from it.
They’ll pull the QAR and soon have the exact profile the aircraft flew and how far from the correct approach path it went. The flight data monitoring team may want to look closer at this particular airport to see if this is a one off, or if unstable approaches are happening too often and recommend corrective action.
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Skiathos achieved Internet fame . . .
. . . some time ago. I've seen photos and videos of low approaches and tourist-skimming landings for years. The first one in this video comes pretty darned close to scraping the tail on the boundary fence:
More examples:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...s+low+landings
More examples:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...s+low+landings
Last edited by OldnGrounded; 16th Jul 2019 at 12:38. Reason: Separate merged links.
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Hopefully the AAIB will publish a report in the fullness of time. It should be reported by the operator as a serious incident.
The PAPI's are visible on the left side. Perhaps they weren't working.
JSI is longer than LCY. The crew must be well versed in what a short runway looks like.
Funny how all these very low approaches seem to occur on 02 at JSI.
The PAPI's are visible on the left side. Perhaps they weren't working.
JSI is longer than LCY. The crew must be well versed in what a short runway looks like.
Funny how all these very low approaches seem to occur on 02 at JSI.
Only half a speed-brake
Could it be that they are used to landing in [...] where they try to touchdown as near the start as possible
But in fact, regular operators onto short runways know much better than that. It is the rare visitor who might fall who the trap more easily.
As for the F/O's thoughts: my best guess is he might have been thinking really hard "is this the time I call for a G/A?" until it was pointless to make voice the concern.
Anybody fancy a bet it was two captains?
Last edited by FlightDetent; 16th Jul 2019 at 14:27. Reason: grammar
The pictures and videos are reminiscent of the Asiana crash in San Francisco 6 years ago where they got too low but only realised this too late for corrective action to be effective. That aircraft came very close to cartwheeling and had that happened the death toll would have been horrendous.
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Yeah, that’s a bit saucy.
like it’s said above , dipping below the PAPis often makes it more floaty not less, like a stone skimming off the water...
no doubt their computations showed LDA as sufficient, IE crossing the threshold at 50’ and landing in the TDZ. I doubt it was really deliberate , can’t remember if the runway slopes up and gives a slightly strange picture ?
like it’s said above , dipping below the PAPis often makes it more floaty not less, like a stone skimming off the water...
no doubt their computations showed LDA as sufficient, IE crossing the threshold at 50’ and landing in the TDZ. I doubt it was really deliberate , can’t remember if the runway slopes up and gives a slightly strange picture ?
I doubt it was really deliberate , can’t remember if the runway slopes up and gives a slightly strange picture ?
The reason is that the pilot's perspective from a lower approach makes the runway appear shorter (but wider). That's why STOL aircraft generally do steep approaches (up to 7.5 degrees) because the resulting mainwheel touchdown point is more accurate with less dispersion.