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VistaJet (VJT868) Causing Chaos in SEA!

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VistaJet (VJT868) Causing Chaos in SEA!

Old 9th Jul 2019, 22:51
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VistaJet (VJT868) Causing Chaos in SEA!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ysab...ature=youtu.be

These dangerous morons should never be allowed within 50 of an aircraft!
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 23:23
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Thats embarrassing !
The FAA will surely have something to say
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 23:31
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Originally Posted by 787PIC View Post
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ysab...ature=youtu.be

These dangerous morons should never be allowed within 50 of an aircraft!
Frequency change 119.2 (thank god) says the controller
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 23:31
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I sure hope so!
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 23:45
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So he launches for the circuit VFR, creates a traffic issue, then tries to change details for an intercontinental flight to Athens?
"Gutsy move Mav."

Last edited by Shot Nancy; 10th Jul 2019 at 00:03.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 23:54
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I've done this a few times, with good reason. Sometimes ATC get a bit of a power trip and think they own aviation and everything in it, so when I sense they are taking advantage and issuing punitive delays, well they ought to be taught a lesson.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 23:56
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I call BS until I hear the initial CD call.

Way too many times Ive been foisted off at a peripheral field when the local weather + 1-2 hrs flight was VFR and I had places to go but the overall picture was poor. In a pressurized piston or King Air, no biggie. Suspect with the interposed Atlantic Ocean, much the same.

Chap sounded like he was trying to make everyones lives easier.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 00:23
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Every third word the English pilot says is errr. Dutchman next to him (best pilots in the world) and I wonder whos in charge.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 00:58
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"You're cleared to LGAV VFR outside controlled airspace. Goodbye, good luck"! ... is what he should have said!
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 08:50
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https://de.flightaware.com/live/flig...741Z/KBFI/LGAV

Looks like at least two airprox events during this chaos.

Nothing yet in NTSB's sites or who is in charge of airprox investigations in the US? FAA only?
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 10:27
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Originally Posted by A320LGW View Post
I've done this a few times, with good reason. Sometimes ATC get a bit of a power trip and think they own aviation and everything in it, so when I sense they are taking advantage and issuing punitive delays, well they ought to be taught a lesson.
Great post . You sure understand the system. Looking forward to get you on the frequency one day
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 11:58
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I don't have the time to listen to the ground/clearance delivery feeds in the hour or so before departure myself, but as one user commented on the Youtube video:

The facts are available by listening to the feed from Ground. An IFR clearance to Athens was given and flight plan filed. Vistajet 868 asked to depart via the opposite runway due to the aircraft being too heavy for the active runway (obstacles on departure flight path). Ground agreed this could be done only as a VFR departure. When transferred to the Tower frequency the ground controlled did not pass on the details to them correctly. Consequently, the Tower thought they intended to reland. The aircraft was then asked to manoeuvre in an area too small for it due to it’s heavy weight and minimum speed.
Sounds plausible.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 12:36
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Originally Posted by Intrance View Post
I don't have the time to listen to the ground/clearance delivery feeds in the hour or so before departure myself, but as one user commented on the Youtube video:



Sounds plausible.

puts a slightly different spin on it, but Id still be seeking more clarification before getting Airborn , Id be defcon 4 when they say make it a four Mile right base ,
I find generally even experienced pilots are backwards in coming forwards, when they need to be a little more assertive to work out whats going to happen .
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 12:44
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post



puts a slightly different spin on it, but I’d still be seeking more clarification before getting Airborn , I’d be defcon 4 when they say “ make it a four Mile right base “,
I find generally even experienced pilots are backwards in coming forwards, when they need to be a little more assertive to work out what’s going to happen .
Perhaps they were, the issue especially in the US is that controllers seem to be quite aggressive. Perhaps he felt he'd go along with what the controller was saying for the time being, cos no doubt if he'd turned around and said at that point that he needs no right base, the controller would either have dropped all his marbles and gone bezerk, or simple said 'i know and don't need you to remind me!'. You never quite know if you are on the same wavelength and questions appear to be unwelcome. This behavior is displayed in many videos of US ATC
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 13:02
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Originally Posted by 787PIC View Post
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ysab...ature=youtu.be

These dangerous morons should never be allowed within 50 of an aircraft!
really? And youre a 787 PIC? You have hung, drawn and quartered the crew without having a clue what was going on. They got airborne on a VFR plan having discussed their IFR plan on the ground and expected to pick that up airborne. The hesitant tone of the radio calls should have given the controller a massive clue that it was not clear to the crew that the instructions ATC were giving them didnt make sense. This is much more a problem associated with coordination of ground and tower than something the pilots did. They could have been a bit more assertive (and it sounds like the captain took over comms briefly to try to sort it out) but I think that slaughtering the crew here is really poor. The Global is not a light twin once you have fuelled it with 45,000lbs of fuel and needs a bit of respect if you are slow.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 13:15
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Originally Posted by Officer Kite View Post
Perhaps they were, the issue especially in the US is that controllers seem to be quite aggressive. Perhaps he felt he'd go along with what the controller was saying for the time being, cos no doubt if he'd turned around and said at that point that he needs no right base, the controller would either have dropped all his marbles and gone bezerk, or simple said 'i know and don't need you to remind me!'. You never quite know if you are on the same wavelength and questions appear to be unwelcome. This behavior is displayed in many videos of US ATC

thats the thing - these ATC werent aggressive compared with some quarters of the US. You ever listened to JFK. Turn your strobes off ! They once shouted at me in NY. Id just about got off the runway. The responsive was about as aggressive as I can be on that medium.

You have to be equally assertive. Ive been told off by US ATC for various things I did t do, and Ill argue the point. If it gets really arsey, Ill ask for a supervisor .
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 13:16
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
puts a slightly different spin on it, but Id still be seeking more clarification before getting Airborn , Id be defcon 4 when they say make it a four Mile right base ,
I find generally even experienced pilots are backwards in coming forwards, when they need to be a little more assertive to work out whats going to happen .
Yeah, I cross posted the Youtube comment to the thread in Bizjets subforum as well and added that I felt the Vista crew might not have been aware completely what consequences the VFR departure would have for them. I skipped through a ground freq. feed and did clearly hear Vista ask for 32L due performance but don't think I went back far enough to to hear the actual clearance discussion.

Seems like all parties involved could have done better here, as is usually the case.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 13:18
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This thread is a wonderful example of CRM in so many different ways. Thank you!

It should be saved and used for training and teaching…
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 13:21
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Originally Posted by Officer Kite View Post
Perhaps they were, the issue especially in the US is that controllers seem to be quite aggressive. Perhaps he felt he'd go along with what the controller was saying for the time being, cos no doubt if he'd turned around and said at that point that he needs no right base, the controller would either have dropped all his marbles and gone bezerk, or simple said 'i know and don't need you to remind me!'. You never quite know if you are on the same wavelength and questions appear to be unwelcome. This behavior is displayed in many videos of US ATC
Heard of Google intelligentsia, now I guess theres a Youtube equivalent.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 13:30
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The IFR pick-up aside, what we do know is they ballsed up the VFR pattern. Too close and too fast.

Last edited by 172_driver; 10th Jul 2019 at 13:56.
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