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VistaJet (VJT868) Causing Chaos in SEA!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ysab...ature=youtu.be These dangerous morons should never be allowed within 50’ of an aircraft! |
That’s embarrassing ! The FAA will surely have something to say |
Originally Posted by 787PIC
(Post 10514411)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ysab...ature=youtu.be These dangerous morons should never be allowed within 50’ of an aircraft! |
I sure hope so!
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So he launches for the circuit VFR, creates a traffic issue, then tries to change details for an intercontinental flight to Athens?
"Gutsy move Mav." |
I call BS until I hear the initial CD call. Way too many times I’ve been foisted off at a peripheral field when the local weather + 1-2 hrs flight was VFR and I had places to go but the overall picture was poor. In a pressurized piston or King Air, no biggie. Suspect with the interposed Atlantic Ocean, much the same. Chap sounded like he was trying to make everyones lives easier. |
Every third word the English pilot says is errr. Dutchman next to him (best pilots in the world) and I wonder who’s in charge. |
"You're cleared to LGAV VFR outside controlled airspace. Goodbye, good luck"! ... is what he should have said!
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https://de.flightaware.com/live/flig...741Z/KBFI/LGAV
Looks like at least two airprox events during this chaos. Nothing yet in NTSB's sites or who is in charge of airprox investigations in the US? FAA only? |
Originally Posted by A320LGW
(Post 10514447)
I've done this a few times, with good reason. Sometimes ATC get a bit of a power trip and think they own aviation and everything in it, so when I sense they are taking advantage and issuing punitive delays, well they ought to be taught a lesson.
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I don't have the time to listen to the ground/clearance delivery feeds in the hour or so before departure myself, but as one user commented on the Youtube video:
The facts are available by listening to the feed from Ground. An IFR clearance to Athens was given and flight plan filed. Vistajet 868 asked to depart via the opposite runway due to the aircraft being too heavy for the active runway (obstacles on departure flight path). Ground agreed this could be done only as a VFR departure. When transferred to the Tower frequency the ground controlled did not pass on the details to them correctly. Consequently, the Tower thought they intended to reland. The aircraft was then asked to manoeuvre in an area too small for it due to it’s heavy weight and minimum speed. |
Originally Posted by Intrance
(Post 10514910)
I don't have the time to listen to the ground/clearance delivery feeds in the hour or so before departure myself, but as one user commented on the Youtube video:
Sounds plausible. puts a slightly different spin on it, but I’d still be seeking more clarification before getting Airborn , I’d be defcon 4 when they say “ make it a four Mile right base “, I find generally even experienced pilots are backwards in coming forwards, when they need to be a little more assertive to work out what’s going to happen . |
Originally Posted by Meester proach
(Post 10514961)
puts a slightly different spin on it, but I’d still be seeking more clarification before getting Airborn , I’d be defcon 4 when they say “ make it a four Mile right base “, I find generally even experienced pilots are backwards in coming forwards, when they need to be a little more assertive to work out what’s going to happen . |
Originally Posted by 787PIC
(Post 10514411)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ysab...ature=youtu.be These dangerous morons should never be allowed within 50’ of an aircraft! |
Originally Posted by Officer Kite
(Post 10514966)
Perhaps they were, the issue especially in the US is that controllers seem to be quite aggressive. Perhaps he felt he'd go along with what the controller was saying for the time being, cos no doubt if he'd turned around and said at that point that he needs no right base, the controller would either have dropped all his marbles and gone bezerk, or simple said 'i know and don't need you to remind me!'. You never quite know if you are on the same wavelength and questions appear to be unwelcome. This behavior is displayed in many videos of US ATC
thats the thing - these ATC weren’t aggressive compared with some quarters of the US. You ever listened to JFK.” Turn your strobes off !” They once shouted at me in NY. I’d just about got off the runway. The responsive was about as aggressive as I can be on that medium. You have to be equally assertive. I’ve been told off by US ATC for various things I did t do, and I’ll argue the point. If it gets really arsey, I’ll ask for a supervisor . |
Originally Posted by Meester proach
(Post 10514961)
puts a slightly different spin on it, but I’d still be seeking more clarification before getting Airborn , I’d be defcon 4 when they say “ make it a four Mile right base “, I find generally even experienced pilots are backwards in coming forwards, when they need to be a little more assertive to work out what’s going to happen . Seems like all parties involved could have done better here, as is usually the case. |
This thread is a wonderful example of CRM in so many different ways. Thank you!
It should be saved and used for training and teaching… |
Originally Posted by Officer Kite
(Post 10514966)
Perhaps they were, the issue especially in the US is that controllers seem to be quite aggressive. Perhaps he felt he'd go along with what the controller was saying for the time being, cos no doubt if he'd turned around and said at that point that he needs no right base, the controller would either have dropped all his marbles and gone bezerk, or simple said 'i know and don't need you to remind me!'. You never quite know if you are on the same wavelength and questions appear to be unwelcome. This behavior is displayed in many videos of US ATC
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The IFR pick-up aside, what we do know is they ballsed up the VFR pattern. Too close and too fast. |
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kb...2019-1800Z.mp3 The VFR departure request from 32L followed by an IFR pickup is agreed by the ground controller at 12:10 onwards. To join the NRVNA1 Sid - meaning a right pattern downwind would be expected. The base turn, not expected unless being vectored North to join the transition after the Sid directly ALPSE (almost due North). Renton and Seattle Tacoma Airspace mean that is is not possible to fly a standard square pattern at KBFI without entering their airspace. Very heavy swept wing jets don’t fly tight circuits. |
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