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Rumoured BA Pilot Industrial Action this Summer

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Rumoured BA Pilot Industrial Action this Summer

Old 9th Jul 2019, 08:47
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Rumoured BA Pilot Industrial Action this Summer

There were Press reports about ten days ago about possible industrial action by BA Pilots this summer. Since then its gone very quiet.......can anyone comment whether the reports were accurate and if it remains a possibility? No point planning subload if so.......

Thanks,
7B
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 09:27
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A couple of consultative ballots were caried out by the union regarding the BA pay offer. They were heavily in favour of industrial action. There is now a formal vote taking place which closes on the twentysomething ish of July. Since BA have now withdrawn even the original (and heavily rejected) offer I think we can all guess the likely result.

I believe UK law requires 14 days notice from ballot to action so a little math is required.........

The union want a Share save scheme, a small percentage increase (BUT with an RPI underpin) and a bonus plan based on company profits.

The company SAY that shares can't be done because IAG own all of them and won't release any, that their percentage offer is reasonable (despite the fact that it may not actually turn out to be an increase in real terms) and that they are offering a bonus. Unfortunately they have yet to say what it will be and what would trigger it.

Both sides are meeting at ACAS today. One would hope that an agreement to underpin the current offer by RPI and a decent bonus offer (after all the company did make nearly 2 billion quid last year) would see an end to the problem.

Incidentally, the WHOLE pay claim company wide would cost less than the fine just levied for the data breach!
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 10:09
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Originally Posted by ASRAAMTOO View Post
A

Incidentally, the WHOLE pay claim company wide would cost less than the fine just levied for the data breach!
A pertinent observation!

Although the pay claim, when awarded, will be a recurrent cost and cumulative. One would HOPE that the data breach will be neither.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 10:15
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Only a fool would strike in this current Political & Economic Climate.

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Old 9th Jul 2019, 11:21
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RexBanner :

Very well put Sir. Companies will keep on squeezing until the workforce has had enough. Good luck to you all.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 11:35
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Very well put Rex.

We pilots and our unions need to be much stronger, not just on pay, but on FDPs, and number of consecutive earlies/lates etc.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 12:01
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Off topic
And the Regulators need to consider just how long [and how many as a percentage of the workforce] a Contract pilot can work for any outfit instead of being an ordinary employee....
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 14:53
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The tabloid headlines of "BA pilots earning £200k reject 11.5% payrise and threaten strike action" are at best disingenuous. I don't work for BA, but I certainly agree with where their workforce is coming from. For a legacy carrier - one which claims to be the worlds favourite and one which is making £2bn profit per year - to be making such blatant attacks on Ts + Cc is downright greedy. Aircrew should be provided with high quality accommodation to ensure adequate rest before making a return flight. This is being attacked. Minimum time down route should not be considered 'target time downroute', but it is.

People like to bash pilots because typically they are earning higher than the average worker and are considered to be doing less actual work. But if you made the average person achieve the competency required of a senior pilot, and add in get up in the dead of night, working in a high altitude, high noise environment for 12+ hours, with the responsibility we carry, I'm sure lots would change their view.

Good luck to my BA counterparts - I feel you may need it.
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Old 9th Jul 2019, 16:13
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
We pilots and our unions need to be much stronger, not just on pay, but on FDPs, and number of consecutive earlies/lates etc.
Any management will resist vigorously, their side of the argument backed up strongly by yearly KPI's and the market realities; know your enemy.

What EZY does on 5/4, the summer Smartlynx squad does on 6/36h. For the same income, cheaper by around 30% due to evasive arrangements on social security. Do not blame the pilots too quick, for the winter months they enjoy home Jet2 style, in cheap-to-QoL countries.

I am afraid you cannot make your (opponent) management go fight the market. If the UK pilot community via BALPA will have the resolve, go cut the roots. Make the market grow the way you need to, put an end to the self-employed one-man LTDs of Ireland.

Towards the East and south of Munich, many broke under that pressure and their industries adopted in an uncanny way. Self-employed air-carrier pilot has become fully legalized at some places, even. There's a full-size government-owned airline that runs self-employed contracts for all crews in the land of Ryanair Sun. It is now a peaceful period, with Primera, Wow, Germania, SmallPlanet and number of others gone, won't last forever.

The management will always have the upper hand, because they are smarter, sharply educated, better motivated, ready to accept short term losses and keen to adopt. And ignorant at times, not personally involved - to their benefit. Us pilots are neither. If the efforts are channelled to make room where the management(s) could step back to, there might be a fighting chance.
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Old 10th Jul 2019, 19:20
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Very well said!

Originally Posted by FlightDetent View Post
Any management will resist vigorously, their side of the argument backed up strongly by yearly KPI's and the market realities; know your enemy.

What EZY does on 5/4, the summer Smartlynx squad does on 6/36h. For the same income, cheaper by around 30% due to evasive arrangements on social security. Do not blame the pilots too quick, for the winter months they enjoy home Jet2 style, in cheap-to-QoL countries.

I am afraid you cannot make your (opponent) management go fight the market. If the UK pilot community via BALPA will have the resolve, go cut the roots. Make the market grow the way you need to, put an end to the self-employed one-man LTDs of Ireland.

Towards the East and south of Munich, many broke under that pressure and their industries adopted in an uncanny way. Self-employed air-carrier pilot has become fully legalized at some places, even. There's a full-size government-owned airline that runs self-employed contracts for all crews in the land of Ryanair Sun. It is now a peaceful period, with Primera, Wow, Germania, SmallPlanet and number of others gone, won't last forever.

The management will always have the upper hand, because they are smarter, sharply educated, better motivated, ready to accept short term losses and keen to adopt. And ignorant at times, not personally involved - to their benefit. Us pilots are neither. If the efforts are channelled to make room where the management(s) could step back to, there might be a fighting chance.
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Old 11th Jul 2019, 11:23
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Originally Posted by ASRAAMTOO View Post
A couple of consultative ballots were caried out by the union regarding the BA pay offer. They were heavily in favour of industrial action. There is now a formal vote taking place which closes on the twentysomething ish of July. Since BA have now withdrawn even the original (and heavily rejected) offer I think we can all guess the likely result.

I believe UK law requires 14 days notice from ballot to action so a little math is required.........

The union want a Share save scheme, a small percentage increase (BUT with an RPI underpin) and a bonus plan based on company profits.

The company SAY that shares can't be done because IAG own all of them and won't release any, that their percentage offer is reasonable (despite the fact that it may not actually turn out to be an increase in real terms) and that they are offering a bonus. Unfortunately they have yet to say what it will be and what would trigger it.

Both sides are meeting at ACAS today. One would hope that an agreement to underpin the current offer by RPI and a decent bonus offer (after all the company did make nearly 2 billion quid last year) would see an end to the problem.

Incidentally, the WHOLE pay claim company wide would cost less than the fine just levied for the data breach!
True, but then the rest of the Company would want a similar increase to what the Nigel's get. I've done plenty of Staff meetings where the Pilots dominate the "chit chat" with the Management and all others present just sit there with raised eye brows waiting for their turn, eventually loosing the will to live. Its the same with Jo Blogs Public, once the press have told them Pilots only average 19hrs a week (utter tosh) you've lost any support.
Good luck to BALPA it's going to an interesting watch
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Old 14th Jul 2019, 01:50
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Originally Posted by Uplinker View Post
Very well put Rex.

We pilots and our unions need to be much stronger, not just on pay, but on FDPs, and number of consecutive earlies/lates etc.
When considering the management perspective, remember all a pilot represents is a number on a spread sheet, somewhere between 3-5% of operating expense per hour.
That the 'authorities have pandered to management bleating on efficiency for years, granting exemptions from. extensions to flight and duty periods whilst simultaneously reducing rest, there is little left to squeeze and long term health outcomes show that there is an 'externality' not borne by airline managers safely having a weekend off, every week and sleeping in their own bed.

To administer this endless squeeze requires high headcount. All adding precisely zero to operating revenue but costing a packet.

It is not the unit cost of pilots of cabin crew blowing out airline CASK it is administration where the price of all these blowhards has to be carried on the seats airlines fly.
However, as they set the agenda, they rarely reduce their own headcount or cost.

There will come a time where airline management realise that the corporation is too heavy for the airline to support and reform the bureaucracy, but it isn't an idiot like Alex Cruz..
The only way for him to be reminded of the contribution of the pilot is to reduce his operating revenue to a point that he comes under pressure.

Last edited by Rated De; 14th Jul 2019 at 01:55. Reason: typo
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Old 14th Jul 2019, 07:54
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True, but then the rest of the Company would want a similar increase to what the Nigel's get.
Good luck to them. If they can get it, great. Not the pilot’s problem though.
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Old 14th Jul 2019, 23:52
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Crew pay

Originally Posted by Busdriver01 View Post
The tabloid headlines of "BA pilots earning £200k reject 11.5% payrise and threaten strike action" are at best disingenuous. I don't work for BA, but I certainly agree with where their workforce is coming from. For a legacy carrier - one which claims to be the worlds favourite and one which is making £2bn profit per year - to be making such blatant attacks on Ts + Cc is downright greedy. Aircrew should be provided with high quality accommodation to ensure adequate rest before making a return flight. This is being attacked. Minimum time down route should not be considered 'target time downroute', but it is.

People like to bash pilots because typically they are earning higher than the average worker and are considered to be doing less actual work. But if you made the average person achieve the competency required of a senior pilot, and add in get up in the dead of night, working in a high altitude, high noise environment for 12+ hours, with the responsibility we carry, I'm sure lots would change their view.

Good luck to my BA counterparts - I feel you may need it.
Many, many years ago as a youngster who had recently entered the aviation business, I had the pleasure of operating as a Loadmaster spending many hours on the flight deck. I did have the opinion then that the Pilots did seem to earn a lot of money compared to us regular employees. I remember asking a very Senior Captain "Why do you get paid such a high salary?"
This question was a genuine one, not meant to demean Pilots in any way, just to find an answer. I'll never forget his succinct reply being "Just pray that you are never on a flight where I have to earn that pay." It took me a while to realise what that meant, but sure enough I was on the flight deck one particular day when at VR, things started to go horribly wrong. The quick response by all three Crew Members certainly saved the day. That's the time when I realised why their pay was "so much." I likened that to a Doctor or any of the Emergency Services people who are not paid for what they do 90% of the time, but for what they know has to do when things go wrong. I always respected Operating Crew but now can easily appreciated that they actually do earn that respect by what they are capable of doing when they need to. Overpaid...certainly not. They may be lucky enough to retire without ever having a situation where they have to save an aircraft, Crew and Passengers but the fact that they could do so if needed is why they should be paid well.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 18:37
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My old man always used to say “always choose a job where you get paid for what you know, rather than what you do”, flying is just that.

Sully and Skiles earned every penny of their salary their whole career, the day they flew the “highly automated” “easy to fly”, “could be flown by a child, or your gran” “why are they even up there these days” Airbus in to the Hudson. After having their pensions/T&Cs and lifestyle battered for years by the accountants, they were then paraded as heroes for the PR department, go figure.
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