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The Mail & Duty Hours

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The Mail & Duty Hours

Old 23rd Jun 2019, 16:41
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There is no doubt that Ts and Cs are being depressed across the industry in Europe and not just in the flight deck. Those who are earning 100k+ are getting fewer and fewer in real terms. Personally I think those earning those numbers could be a bit more grateful?

I saw an ad looking to recruit FOs for 27k and captains for working 18k more. Absolutely pathetic numbers.

Cabin crew wages are absolutely disgraceful in almost every airline. In engineering, were doing ok, but now were seeing guys popping up from Eastern Europe and Asia who are depressing the rate somewhat.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 19:20
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Paul 852.
The problem with this calculation is that you are limited to 900 (or so) flight hours per year. So at 8 flying hours per day you can't work more than 113 days per year.
Don't forget though that the earlies, making up half the days, are 9 hour DUTY max. Normally only two sectors. I do agree with you though. It was a bit of sloppy figuring on my part. However, I think it makes the point that pilots "work" more that 17.5 hours per week.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 19:26
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Originally Posted by Rated De
Is that flight or duty hours?
Flight/block
I'm all for a bit of fishing with Pilots but even I was pretty pi$$ed with the article.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 20:44
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herod

Don't forget though that the earlies, making up half the days, are 9 hour DUTY max.
only in CAP371 Land which is of no interest to EASA regulated operators
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 21:14
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Originally Posted by Herod
Paul 852.

Don't forget though that the earlies, making up half the days, are 9 hour DUTY max. Normally only two sectors.
Confused by this.

Our 2 sector duties (0600 start) are limited to 13 hours, but the more common 4 sector early duties are limited to 12 hours. FDP.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 21:34
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Don't forget I started by saying I have been retired for a long time. When I was doing it, bearing in mind my user-name precedes Pontius even starting training, it was all under CAA regulatons. My apologies if I've confused anyone. Let's just accept that pilot's do work long hours, which may not be to the Mail's liking.
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Old 23rd Jun 2019, 23:57
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The general public will never accept that airline pilots work hard. They are fixed on the idea that we get paid fabulous amounts of money for very little effort. Newspaper articles and special exposes on current affairs programs only reinforce that stereotype. Even extended family members don't want to know. Then there is the whole discussion about how computers will make us all redundant and how planes land themselves. In the words of the penguins "Smile and wave boys, smile and wave."
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 04:20
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The public and media have the entire concept of aviation reversed from reality.
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 07:40
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Originally Posted by Lookleft
The general public will never accept that airline pilots work hard. They are fixed on the idea that we get paid fabulous amounts of money for very little effort. ."
I tell them, If its that easy, why dont you apply?
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 08:48
  #30 (permalink)  

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I have a vague recollection that BA had a performance related scheme ( fair & equitable ) many moons ago, which encouraged the workers.

Probably around 1990, BA paid a bonus of one week's pay for a company profit exceeding 50m, and additional weeks pay for each 50m exceeding the base figure of 50m.
That then changed with a minimum base figure of 350m. What happened after that scheme, I know not.

What the beancounters failed to appreciate is that the employees are the company's biggest asset. Due to how financial accounts are prepared, their value does not appear on the balance sheet. If the company fails to recognise the importance of goodwill and people going that extra mile to accomplish the task, get new management on board to motivate the troops.

Last edited by parkfell; 24th Jun 2019 at 10:04.
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 09:02
  #31 (permalink)  

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parkfell. I remember an HR manager telling the crews "we don't consider staff to be an asset, because we can't realise them for cash". The cost of everything, and the value of nothing?
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 10:03
  #32 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Herod
parkfell. I remember an HR manager telling the crews "we don't consider staff to be an asset, because we can't realise them for cash". The cost of everything, and the value of nothing?
What they would recognise is when their spreadsheets going forward don't match their forecasts.
Scratching of the head? Productivity down. Increased sickness. Cash flow suffering. Will the penny drop?

Just what is it they do not get about a content workforce.......?

"the floggings will continue until morale improves"
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Old 24th Jun 2019, 14:14
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Originally Posted by parkfell
I have a vague recollection that BA had a performance related scheme ( fair & equitable ) many moons ago, which encouraged the workers.

Probably around 1990, BA paid a bonus of one week's pay for a company profit exceeding 50m, and additional weeks pay for each 50m exceeding the base figure of 50m.
That then changed with a minimum base figure of 350m. What happened after that scheme, I know not.

What the beancounters failed to appreciate is that the employees are the company's biggest asset. Due to how financial accounts are prepared, their value does not appear on the balance sheet. If the company fails to recognise the importance of goodwill and people going that extra mile to accomplish the task, get new management on board to motivate the troops.
I was in BA around that time (92 - 93?) and I think we got an extra weeks wages in the summer for the profit share and another weeks wages around Christmas.
The BA engineers I've bumped into since generally don't seem to be a happy bunch, it certainly appears that their T & Cs have got worse over the years.
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